Thread: Tail stock Live center ? Dead center?

For woodturning a good quality live centre should be all you need, dead centres really need lubrication or the friction will cause burn marks and lubrication could stain the wood.

Basically dead centres for woodturning is old technology from a time when live centres were only used on metal turning lathes, I have not used a dead centre since trade school back in the 70"s

Dead centres as drive centers are also the new in thing - "safety drive centers are the current favored gadget." Oneway, Cup Drive Center, #2 MT - The Woodturning Store

For at least 15 years, I've promoted the use of traditional dead centers as drive centers in the headstock to teach the use of a skew in a "safe environment." It's also a great way to gain the confidence of a student who typically is quite scared of a massive dig in whilst using the skew. Why? mostly because they have been told it's a nasty scary tool or have not been taught well to begin with.

The dead center acts somewhat like a clutch allowing the work piece to stall whilst the drive loses "bite." The sensitivity of the "clutch" is controlled by tailstock pressure. By starting on a 25-30mm round blank the student can be taught how to present the skew with no scary moments. As they gain confidence and tool proficiency step up the tailstock pressure, the size of blank and then progress on to roughing down with the skew etc.

It works well, and teaches the student to finesse tool presentation, cuts, etc by using minimal thrust and making the skews cutting edge do the work.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

The dead center acts somewhat like a clutch allowing the work piece to stall whilst the drive loses "bite." The sensitivity of the "clutch" is controlled by tailstock pressure. By starting on a 25-30mm round blank the student can be taught how to present the skew with no scary moments. As they gain confidence and tool proficiency step up the tailstock pressure, the size of blank and then progress on to roughing down with the skew etc.

It works well, and teaches the student to finesse tool presentation, cuts, etc by using minimal thrust and making the skews cutting edge do the work.

That sounds good . Ill have to give that a go and try pushing the skew to far on purpose. And also use it next time I'm giving someone an introduction to turning. Ive given a few people a go but have kept the skew chisel to one side just letting them use the roughing and spindle gouge or parting tool.

Originally Posted by auscab

That sounds good . Ill have to give that a go and try pushing the skew to far on purpose. And also use it next time I'm giving someone an introduction to turning. Ive given a few people a go but have kept the skew chisel to one side just letting them use the roughing and spindle gouge or parting tool.

The trick is to make a good center mark both ends, use reasonable tailstock pressure to "seat" the centers then back off the tailstock pressure a little. There needs to be a reasonable "cone" in the blank to generate sufficient drive. That comes with experience.

You will need to constantly readjust the tailstock as required.

Ive been looking through the parts I got with my Wadkin lathe and the dead centers came with the lathe.
Wadkin are calling them conical centers in the catalog. And they supply two . One is for the driving headstock.
Driving pieces safely this way must be why they supplied two ?

Conical Drives a.jpg

Ive now had a distant memory I possibly saw this described in an old classic English wood turning book from the 1950s .
Cant remember the name of it atm ?

Originally Posted by auscab

Ive been looking through the parts I got with my Wadkin lathe and the dead centers came with the lathe.
Wadkin are calling them conical centers in the catalog. And they supply two . One is for the driving headstock.
Driving pieces safely this way must be why they supplied two ?

Conical Drives a.jpg

Ive now had a distant memory I possibly saw this described in an old classic English wood turning book from the 1950s .
Cant remember the name of it atm ?

Like already mentioned, dead centres were the norm back in the day, does Wadkin offer a live centre in that catalogue if not then that answers your question

Originally Posted by Camelot

Like already mentioned, dead centres were the norm back in the day, does Wadkin offer a live centre in that catalogue if not then that answers your question

Dead centers in the tail stock were common back in the day. Yes the lathe also came with a ball bearing tail stock center from new. A Live center. The driving headstock had spur drives.

Originally Posted by auscab

Dead centers in the tail stock were common back in the day. Yes the lathe also came with a ball bearing tail stock center from new. A Live center. The driving headstock had spur drives.

So really you could also run the lathe with either 2 dead centres or 1 dead centre in the headstock and the live centre in the tail stock and not use the spur.

Originally Posted by Camelot

So really you could also run the lathe with either 2 dead centres or 1 dead centre in the headstock and the live centre in the tail stock and not use the spur.

Well yes as Mobyturns just said in post 4. He said the conical centre no spurs (dead centre drive) to be used like a clutch in the headstock. I assume he meant it that way. With a typical live center in the tail stock.

I posted the question about dead center use in the tail stock before reading the Wadkin brochure description of why there are two conical centers that came with the lathe. So to my surprise they are also saying use a conical centre up each end . No description of Why though.

It must be the same reason as Mobyturns ?

Perhaps if you crank the pressure up like Mobyturns also said so it doesn't act like a clutch you can drive the work
that way and turn normally and its for keeping the lathe running while changing over the stock without turning the lathe off.

This rings a bell as well with something Ive seen said here somewhere. But I don't remember it being a plain conical centre. It was some other drive with ripples around the edge.

Originally Posted by auscab

Well yes as Mobyturns just said in post 4. He said the conical centre no spurs (dead centre drive) to be used like a clutch in the headstock. I assume he meant it that way. With a typical live center in the tail stock.

Yes, that is the intention.

When you look back into the industrial revolution era history of wood turning it was a mass manufacturing trade and "hot" changes of spindle blanks were the norm - mostly because time was money and production turners were often paid only by piece work rates. It is also related to the way lathes were powered / driven by belt from a manually driven great wheel then mechanical power via overhead shafting etc - continuous rotational motion. Some lathes were continuously driven, other setups used an idler wheel to tension the drive belt so drive could be interrupted. Lathes were mostly one or two speed units. Two dead centers meant the turner, without stopping the lathe, could position the pre-prepared blank (centers marked) on the tailstock dead center (or live center) then the tailstock advanced to locate the blanks center on the headstock "cone drive" / dead center. The tailstock dead center was constantly lubricated, the "cone drive" not lubricated.

If you go back even further to bow and pole lathes the blank was mounted between two dead centers with the actual spindle blank being driven by a cord wrapped around the blank. The blank reciprocated, forward then back with the cut typically only possible in the one direction.

"Modern" spur drives were then developed as lathe drive systems evolved from line shafting, to independent, multi speed belt & pulley systems etc. We now see Sorby Steb centers etc which are a further evolution. Spur drives are found way back in the history of wood turning as faceplates used to mount bowls etc on pole lathes. No doubt they existed on bow lathes as well.

If you turn one piece pens like sierra ,put the bushes in a blank and one of your dead centres in the headstock and a live centre in the tailstock and turn . No need for a mandrill set ,quicker and more accurate .
Ted

I slipped one of the Wadkin 2MT conical centre's in the woodfast head stock spindle and gave it a go today . It was quite a revelation . I could play around and make it catch but also try out some skew cutting in ways I wouldn't normally try . It gives you a great deal of confidence obviously. Think Ill be able to try some of the skew moves I see Stevethewoodturner do on Instagram .
Then I cranked up the pressure and turned the 4 x 29mm diameter table top locators that I fix into the tops of table legs. And started playing with removing the work and replacing it with the lathe running . Did the same when they were the right size and needed sanding . I recon Ill be doing this all the time if I can get away with it. Its very good! Specially for the "hot changes"
Ive always just driven with the standard looking 4 spur drive. I suppose it works better on the smaller spindle turning? Large table legs say 100 x 100 with the mass wouldn't have any advantage of stopping a catch ? Or doing Hot changes?


IMG_2153a.jpg IMG_2154a.jpg



Maybe I should look into getting one of those Stebb drives . Whats so good about them ?
Mcjing sell these. Are they as good as the Sorby items?
Just a moment...

Rob.

Seen some sets on Facebook adds recently Both drive and tailstocks sets of 6 for 30 something $ Morse 1 or 2 taper. Quality is probably dubious - better than fixed though. Have done turning with a fixed tailstock -this is just cheap assed stuff - Has 0 advantage and you have to slowly tighten the tailstock as it burns into the wood.