Thread: TCT Inserts

Originally Posted by Craig Jackson

Thanks for your thoughts.
Believe it or not, we are still selling a fair amount of tools in Australia and New Zealand. (if you got to have it, you got to have it)

I agree with your thought on distributors and we are in conversation with retailers from several areas of the world right now in order to address these conversion and shipping issues. It is a bigger task than one might imagine.
Craig

I don't doubt Craig!

In the mean time, why dont you offer a special promo for the Forum members, where you provide a price Inclueding freight to Australia for a specific number of tools (Ci1's). You could put together a package, lets say, 10 x complete Ci1(shaft, 2x screws, 2x square inserts, 2x radius inserts, 1x shavings shield) no handle, we all can make them.

Put a package together that you are happy with, and good enough, that will attract new buyers. Make that offer public here, and ask for someone to take charge of the bulk order and payment. This person could then start to collect expressions of interest and deposits from each new customer interested in the offer. Obviously, each person will have added to the tool price the postage cost to their location inside Australia. It would be up to this forum member (in charge) to either make the full payment to you and get the tools here, and then charge the respective unit price + postage to the interested members, until all gone.
And if you want to increase your chances to get someone here to accept to take charge, think of an incentive that will justify someone to want to do this, and nothing better to achieve it than, to offer free of charge also one complete tool to this person, for his troubles, (receive moneys, email, PM's, phone calls, packaging, postage, etc, etc,)

I'm no business man, but this would probably work until you have some representation (importer/dealer) here in Australia! allowing some people to be able to afford one of your tools. Free world, free country...!

Just my opinion...!

Cheers
RBTCO

I've just realised that this post would probably be better placed on your thread, Craig.
I don't think will be much of a problem for the mods to change it if it looks that it "goes somewhere"!, huh?

Cheers
RBTCO

rob.....
You are hired, I can use someone with your forward thinking full time! What time can you be here Monday morning?

I have not been able to think this clearly for a while with all I got myself doing now a days.

I will put a deal together next week.
Craig

Originally Posted by Craig Jackson

rob.....
You are hired, I can use someone with your forward thinking full time! What time can you be here Monday morning?

I have not been able to think this clearly for a while with all I got myself doing now a days.

I will put a deal together next week.

Craig

Sorry Craig, no can do...! but I will be glad if this can be of help to someone.

My financial resources are minimum so, not your best candidate to take over, I believe there are a few other forumates that will be in a better situation to do so. Anyone here, that would like to take the opportunity, is more than welcome to raise their hands and collect any rewards that this idea can bring.

It would be reasonable for everyone to "assume" that I was making the suggestion, thinking of myself, wrong assumption...! The suggestion was just a "loud" thought of what I believe was fair. Any takers...? I don't mind, seriously!

Don't worry Craig, someone will do it!

Cheers
RBTCO

Thats not a bad idea. I would be interested in doing it but it may be an idea to wait a little while for the A$ to go up a little more. If there is enough interest I would be happy to sponsor it with the current $ situation. As rob said price would be total to get it all here divided by the number of packages plus the cost of packaging and postage in Australia (This may apply to forum members only but. To advertise these in Australia outside of the forum will take time and money). It would be a nice little present for our partners to get us. I do like the idea of the incentive but. It would be a bit of work for the person involved.

It would be a good idea to get a rough idea of how many are required first so we know how many packages to get.

BJ

Hi everyone,

I have some great news from Craig,

He has provided me with his offer, only because I initiated this idea, he is aware that maybe someone else will take over.

The idea was for someone to invest on a minimum of 10 x Ci1 tool sets, pay Craig, have then send here, and then distribute to those interested. Craig appear receptive to offer a complete Ci1 too set to this person, for the trouble...!

Now, I'm giving the opportunity for someone to be in this position and get a free tool, but only if he/she invests and purchase 10 sets to Craig. This investment as per yesterday currency is of AU$2,311.17 ,(USD$1,494.70).

The first person who showed some interest in take charge is regulated, so if you forumate, still willing to invest this amount immediately, you can have it...!
If you are not in the position to do so, I would like you to confirm either here or by PM, otherwise the opportunity will continue on offer for a few more days.

After that, and if no one wants to do it, I will then take charge on the principal that I will accept payment of the amount for each toll set + freight inside Australia and I will gather the amounts until all 10 sets are sold, I will then be in the position to send full payment to Craig and have him to send the tools, which I will then rap & post to each buyer.

OK, ATTENTION MEMBERS, the deal is this;

1 x Complete Ci1 tool set composition

* - 1 x Ci1 Easy Rougher shaft (only).
* - 1 x Ci1 Lexan chip deflector
* - 2 x Inserts square
* - 2 x Inserts R4 (4" radius)
* - 2 x inserts R2 (2" radius)
* - 2 x Insert screws
Note: No handle

Cost of AU$ 231.17 + $10 postage and handling inside Australia = TOTAL AU$241.17 delivered to you door...! ( a discount of USD$58.92 = AU$ 91.51). A similar based discount will also apply for orders of inserts for forum members, as needed.

OK, this is the deal. and this is what everyone will be charged if they want one, regardless if is going to be done by me or someone else. I've just made the list of what I believe the tool set should have as a good starting point.

The intention is to bring some of these tools into Australia, directly from the tool maker, for the best price possible, before Craig will find a importer/distributor for these items here in the land of OZ.

I know well what is involved and the cost to get all the components to copy one of these tools, therefore I believe you can save yourself lots of troubles by just buying one. I am also and specially thinking of those without the skills, tools and time to copy this tool, making any possible attempt a "dangerous and ineffective" one so, this is the best deal possible at the moment for everyone!

Now, is all up to you...!

Tell us what you think!

PS: the original discount amount was USD$ not AU$ as it is now, sorry!

Cheers
RBTCO

Any counter offer, Hughie? Now it's your chance!

OK,

I will pay for it all if you want rob. That's also a very good offer from craig, saving of nearly $100 for us. How could you go wrong. Also saves a bit not having a handle. makes it better cause we can turn a real strong one out of ironbark or something. Just don't give it to cliff to try out .

If I do get them over here north Brissy members may be able to save the postage by picking it up on a Saturday morning or something (usually only time I have free).

Thanks Craig, Rob and everyone else who has had input into this.

BJ

Haven't seen any interest from anyone at the moment. Who does want one. Even when the dollar improves six months to 2 years down the track the offer will be gone and with the discount Craig is giving us it will come out to around the same or better now. Discount is 28.2% if my maths is correct. That would mean the dollar would have to be back around the 90's to match it. That doesn't include the wasted shipping for just buying one Ci tool. They may become more popular or products more expensive and Craig might have to bump up his price even more.

BJ

Might pay to start a new thread to see who is interested in getting one, particularly with a title promoting the offer of a Ci1 at a discount price before committing to buying 10 of them.

Never know, you might only get 5 interested

Originally Posted by regulated

OK,

I will pay for it all if you want rob. That's also a very good offer from craig, saving of nearly $100 for us. How could you go wrong. Also saves a bit not having a handle. makes it better cause we can turn a real strong one out of ironbark or something. Just don't give it to cliff to try out .

If I do get them over here north Brissy members may be able to save the postage by picking it up on a Saturday morning or something (usually only time I have free).

Thanks Craig, Rob and everyone else who has had input into this.

BJ

Hi BJ,
Congratulations on your decision.
I'm sorry of only now replying, considering that you made your decision publicaly so early in the day, but I had one of those days, only now I was able to seat in front of the computer and check things out.
Again, I'm pleased that someone did get the deal and the reward from Craig. I'm a strong believe that giving a fair go and play fair with others, normally pays off. This is the case with Craig, who had the "guts" to accept the challenge to come to this forum and personally discuss any matters related with his tool. After a few close calls, I would thing reasonable to say that Craig's modesty as the tool inventor, and some of the less convinced forum members, had come to some sort of understanding, allowing Craig to feel comfortable to share with us some of the tool secrets and characteristics. I also believe that Craig has also learn a valued lesson by playing the game with us and not against us, after all, is not everyday that we here have the opportunity to ask direct questions to a tool maker/inventor from any country, including our own!

The interest and curiosity about this tool principle, among the forum member, had become obvious, so something had to be done. I did have no hesitation in copying the tool (x 4, 12, 14, 15 & 17 mm), and I did make it public from the very beginning by making my own and providing the WIP of it, as also all information necessary to acquire the TCT inserts from various suppliers, but I soon realise that others would find it difficult to achieve (for various reasons!), and was a good chance that some would end-up with a very unsafe (dangerous) tool, so this was my way of helping out and get square with Craig.
What I mean is, and to keep it simple, Craig gave me the idea, and If I knew him personally then, I would be saying, "I owe you one, mate...!", and from the way Craig took the issue with all of us, I felt that I would have the opportunity to pay him back, and also "facilitate" 10+1=11 other members to benefit from it all. As we say here is Australia, "get 2 birds with one stone!".

From what you said BJ, I believe, you have already contacted Craig and accepted to pay him for the total of the deal, and that was my preferred option from the start, and the reason why the opportunity was open to everyone , as I admitted that I was not in the financial situation to do it, from the start. The AU$10 postage I mention and added to the total, is for a prepaid 3kg bag in $9.50 and about 50c for some bubble rap and tape. This is all very good news to everyone, and certainly that some can see it as a nice Christmas discount, thanks Craig.

So that everyone knows, the offer was of 30% discount on the tool and any accessories. The freight from the US to Australia was calculated by Craig of being about USD$12 per tool set. I put together the list of what I believe this tool set should have for a all around work and TCT inserts enough to keep one going for a while. Obviously, the preferred insert type will be soon worked out by each user, so replacements (orders) would be based on that decision.

I also would like to bring the attention to all our forumates, that the $100 discount or near enough for the tool set, it will disappear as soon as the tool get a distributor here in Australia, and that my friends is a fact.

Well, this is all pretty much over from me, my work is done so, I wish you BJ the best of luck with the sales, and enjoy your new tool!

Cheers
RBTCO

Gave my carbide rougher a first spin yesterday and, from what I understand from the your various comments posted here on the forum, it worked just as expected, i.e. quite rapid, but also quite rough ... a rapid-rougher, and what a load of shavings and dust it spread over everything, including me . Not exactly woodturning the way I have been doing it up until now, but not having to regularly stop to resharpen is a big plus. I think I am going to use this tool quite a bit, especially for green turning down and for those large irregular dirty lumps of wood I sometimes tackle.

Many thanks to Frank and Cliff for their generosity in getting me underway with the carbide inserts.

Neil

Originally Posted by NeilS

Gave my carbide rougher a first spin yesterday and, from what I understand from the your various comments posted here on the forum, it worked just as expected, i.e. quite rapid, but also quite rough ... a rapid-rougher, and what a load of shavings and dust it spread over everything, including me . Not exactly woodturning the way I have been doing it up until now, but not having to regularly stop to resharpen is a big plus. I think I am going to use this tool quite a bit, especially for green turning down and for those large irregular dirty lumps of wood I sometimes tackle.

Many thanks to Frank and Cliff for their generosity in getting me underway with the carbide inserts.

Neil

Hi Neil,

I'm glad that you have your SIT (Square Insert Tool), ready for a test run.
There 3 things that you can do t resolve some the tools issues at the moment, there is;
- Large amount of shavings going everywhere, including inside your clothes, unless you use overalls. Actually I use the blue disposable overall sets, as they cover very effectively all the body from head to toe, appart from the hole for the eyes.
- A quick and cheap installation of some shower curtain with their various rods shapes, keep everything very enclosed.
- The original tool shavings deflector is very efficient and a must to have when using this tool so, the deflector can very simply be made out of one of the bench grinders spark guards, normally remove all together from the machines, from the start. If you have none, look at a bench grinder model with the deflector you like and order them as spares (accessories) from the hardware/tool store, they will cost very little. Make sure you order 2 of them just in case.

The one I have on my SIT 15-17mm, did come out from a cheap grinder, that I remove as soon as I got it. As you can see, I have done nothing to it, appart from grabbing a large hose clamp and fit it on the top of the tool shaft. I am waiting for 4 similar deflectors from another grinder model I seen. Even small, just a little smaller then what I would like, this shavings deflector works very well, with only a small percentage of 5% or so, coming back.

I also believe that the finish that the tool is capable, is a lot better than what we are getting until we get a little more experience with it. Indeed, and as Craig admitted, the inserts with a radius as the 15mm ones from Cliff, are capable of producing very reasonable finishes. I recently use mine (15mm) on that green piece of paper bark gum, and was nearly good enough to start with the sanding, no problem.

One thing one should never forget, these SIT tools, are made to remove lots of timber, very quickly on any wood species, they are not detail or finishing tools but, will produce a lot better finishes, as soon as the person gets a fair bit of practise with it.

PS: attached is a pic of my deflector quickly and simply attached to the tool, very effective...!

Cheers
RBTCO

I guess the finish will improve as [a] the blank becomes round [b] and when finer cuts are able to be taken.
But it seem to me that the way it cuts... or shears. Will limit the final fineness of any cut, especially on hard dry timber.

At the end of the day this maybe a good roughing tool. Its simple design will lend to a great deal of imitation.The positive in that, is that this could consider flattery. But it aint gonna add to the bank balance

Perhaps Craig will have to live with this.The up side is that this tool falls well under the radar of the Chinese. If they get hold of it then he wont stand a snow balls chance in you know where of keeping up.