Thread: TCT Inserts

Originally Posted by NeilS

Also, have a look at his one which looks like the Ci1 square insert which is designed for cutting wood. Less than half the cost of the Ci1 replacement tips, but has to be purchased in packs of 10.
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http://www.pgstools.com/servlet/the-16399/15x15%2Csquare%2Ccarbide%2Cinsert%2Cinserts%2C2.5%2Cmm%2Ccountersunk%2Cwood-cutting%2C/Detail

Also found this one which is slightly smaller (14 x 14 x 2mm) and cheaper, but it is made of C4 micro-grain carbide which, according to another site, "is the most durable grade for saw blade teeth, and is usually found only on premium (wood saw) blades". Not sure how that thin 2mm cutter would stand up to rough knocks, but should be OK if fully supported as in the Ci1 design.

http://www.pgstools.com/servlet/the-...-x-14-x/Detail

Neil

Interesting.

There are 3 different sizes but they are all smaller than the square bit used in the Ci1.
http://www.pgstools.com/servlet/the-...ing/Categories

Don't understand. In your link there is a 15x15x2.5, isn't that thicker than the Ci1 insert, according to your previous post? BTW, the 12x12x1.5 is the one I got.

Very cool. They look like ones I could use for my pottery. Might get some to try. Could be a little side line making tools for potters.

Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

Don't understand. In your link there is a 15x15x2.5, isn't that thicker than the Ci1 insert, according to your previous post? BTW, the 12x12x1.5 is the one I got.

Yup, I didn't see that one til after I said they were smaller.

The original in the Ci1 is 15 x15 x 2.2.

If anybody is interested in these, send me a PM, I have done a bulk order of the 15 x15 x 2.5 to save on the freight.

Not sure how that thin 2mm cutter would stand up to rough knocks,

I reckon if the bed where the tip is to sit is flat and tip well secured then you should not have a problem. Most hobby turners probably wont have a problem I would think.

Thanks for the links

The more I looked at those carbide cutters the more they reminded me of something...that I couldn't quite recall... then I remembered the those Shelix planer cutterheads with those spiral rows of replaceable carbide tips...

This one.... http://www.byrdtool.com/

Not sure about the size compared to Ci1, but their price (by the box of 10 again) is a tad better. See bottom of page... http://www.byrdtool.com/planers.html

However, this does have me pondering how the Shelix uses these inserts to cut (not scrape) and how they might be adapted for turning tools other than hoggers. The immediate thought is perhaps something like a large bedan or at an off-set angle as a different style of skew (but without the usual acute or obtuse corners)...but angle of presentation and protecting the user from the rear facing edge would need some further consideration. Not sure how sharp an edge these C-4 carbides will take for a cutting action (although, those using the shelix planer heads are happy with the finish they are getting on difficult woods), but then the advantage of being able to rotate the cutter insert for another 3 fresh edges is appealing if the cutting/slicing action is OK.

Neil

Another good find, I'll leave that one to somebody else to investergate.

Hmmm... on second thoughts, having had another look at the images of those inserts, the cutting edge angle is quite obtuse and perhaps not suitable for the cutting/slicing action we prefer to use in wood turning. As for those thicknessers, they have a fair old grunt to be able to take off a 20" wide slice in one pass and a slightly obtuse edge is not going to make much difference one way or the other! Maybe when I get my tips (thanks Cliff) and rougher going I can experiment by flipping it over and seeing what damage I can do

Neil

Originally Posted by NeilS

The more I looked at those carbide cutters the more they reminded me of something...that I couldn't quite recall... then I remembered the those Shelix planer cutterheads with those spiral rows of replaceable carbide tips...

This one.... http://www.byrdtool.com/

Not sure about the size compared to Ci1, but their price (by the box of 10 again) is a tad better. See bottom of page... http://www.byrdtool.com/planers.html

However, this does have me pondering how the Shelix uses these inserts to cut (not scrape) and how they might be adapted for turning tools other than hoggers. The immediate thought is perhaps something like a large bedan or at an off-set angle as a different style of skew (but without the usual acute or obtuse corners)...but angle of presentation and protecting the user from the rear facing edge would need some further consideration. Not sure how sharp an edge these C-4 carbides will take for a cutting action (although, those using the shelix planer heads are happy with the finish they are getting on difficult woods), but then the advantage of being able to rotate the cutter insert for another 3 fresh edges is appealing if the cutting/slicing action is OK.

Neil

Neil, the helix cutters approach the wood at quite an angle, thus cutting instead of scraping. I've thought about replacing the head on my planer / thicknesser, but I already have 3 sets of blades, cost around $100 per set of 3.

Jeff

OK, 20 spoken for so far.

I'll let you all know when they come in what the hole size & bevel angle is.

Thanks.

Much appreciated Cliff.

Thanks Neil, you are obviously doing also some "home work" on these issues, and those links you provided are a winner.

Yesterday, after you gave us the first lot of links, I start searching and did found extremely difficult to find inserts specific to timber cutting so, I've contacted PGS tools for some assistance.

This was my email;
To: [email protected]
Subject: Timber carbide inserts

Dear Sir/Madam,



I'm enquiring in relation to some timber carbide inserts you appear to produce.

I am looking for carbide cutters to make some turning gouges. The inserts that I'm looking for are exactly like your S-15-4 in appearance but I'm looking for 12mm and 16mm inserts if possible. I had great difficulty in work out what inserts you make for cutting timber, out of so many. Could you please assist me with the identification of the inserts you make specially for timber cutting?. Your advice on the best quality inserts for this purpose would be most appreciated. I'm also looking at inserts of the mentioned size but with a slight curve (radius) on the 4 cutting edges, do you make them, also?

What is the size of the "countersunk" hole? (for screw).



I understand that for most of the insert models, a minimum quantity order of 10 is required, so what would be the freight cost to me ( Australia ) for and order of 10, 20 or 30 inserts?



Your assistance with this matter would be most appreciated.



Regards

George Valentine

I was quite surprised when I got a response this morning and directly from the Company President Mr Billy Strawter, Jr.

This was their email response;
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Mr. Valentine –

Thank you for your inquiry. In response to your difficulty in locating the wood cutting inserts, I have modified the site to make it easier to locate these tools. You may find them here:

http://www.pgstools.com/servlet/the-...ing/Categories

At the time the only sizes we have available are a 12, a 14, and 15. Upon request I can get pricing on a 17. All are in millimeters. All the inserts have a radius on all four cutting edges.

I will have to get back with you on the size of the hole, as we have these made for us.

Since I do not have your postal code the best way to find shipping charges is here:

http://ircalc.usps.gov/

Package weight will be as follows, for 10 insert 1 lb, for 20 inserts 2 lbs, for 30 insert 3 lbs.

We ship international packages via the United States Postal Service as the are the most economical for international shipping.

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

Best regards,

Billy




Billy Strawter, Jr
President









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I'm pleased that they modified the web site overnight, is now a lot easier to find and see what they have for timber use.
I'm also interested on those 17mm inserts, they would be preferred for my 16mm HSS bar (tool recently made). The 15mm inserts can also be used on that tool without much "fuss". The 12mm ones would be ideal for my other 12mm HSS bar I purchase at the recent Adelaide Show. I will be enquiring about the prices for the 17mm inserts, on the cutting edge angle (grind) the radius degrees and the possibility for square (straight) cutters/inserts.

I'm waiting also for the answer of another major manufacturer/supplier of these type inserts so, we will see...!

I'm convinced that the cutters used by Craig on original design of the Ci1 & Ci2, were available already in the market, as normal blanks, I mean, inserts without any specific markings, even maybe without the screw hole (countersunk). Obviously, the manufacturer is not allowed to promote or sell these cutters as they are a patent/copyright design and configuration of Craig. If this is correct, it would make sense why we can't find them anywhere but Craig or his authorised seller(s). I have indeed invited Billy or even Craig on this same thread, a few post before, to shine some light on this matter, but never happen...!

I can understand why so much secrecy from the designer (Craig), as I know how it works when one try to make a living out of an original idea/invention on a commercial level. I still believe his tool combination is the best out there, despite the fact of many of us trying to "copy" it, for a variety of reasons, not all very sensible or economical.

Anyway, is all good fun and good practise so lets keep looking...!

Thank you also Cliff, for keeping me updated of the new finds and of your "bulk" order, I will contact you about it, thanks.

Cheers
RBTCO