Thread: Turning tools cheap vs quality?

Not wishing to appear brusque but this question does appear quite regularly, this link to the last time it was asked should give you a good start to the answer you're looking for,

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/too...advice-149288/

Having said that, come back to us with specific questions and we'll be very pleased to help you along with your new hobby.

Hi Chrome and welcome to the forums.

The link to the tool thread dr4g0nfly posted has a lot of useful advice. In short, the cheaper tools are made from mild (ordinary) steel and whilst they can maintain a good edge, the edge will drop off quickly. The more expensive turning tools are made from High Speed Steel (HSS) and will hold an edge longer (depending on the hardness of the timber).

Try looking for a beginners set of turning tools. The Robert Sorby brand has a great beginners set and are cheaper than if you buy separately.

Hope this helps.

IMO the answer is NO.
Mick

Chrome,

Look at my post #8 here
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/too...advice-149288/

I recently had a windfall of $ and have been buying some outrageously expensive turning tools. They turn longer without resharpening, but the results are not one whit better than my sharpened screw drivers and mystery metal.

There is no substitute for a bowl gouge if you are making bowls.

The secret to any tool is proper sharpening. Do a search in the forum and read all the raging arguments. Draw your own conclusions.

If you do not have a grinder, the tools can be sharpened with a whet stone, but that will be tiresome. The skew is best sharpened on a flat stone or a piece of 220 grit sandpaper on a flat surface.

Turners have been doing beautiful work for hundreds of years, and still do without high speed steel, powder metal tools, or carbide bits.

Get some instruction on sharpening the tools you have and turning. If you get hooked, you can budget for the single most used tool and buy that, etc. etc.

If you find that turning does not appeal to you, you do not have to dispose of hundreds of $ of lightly used tools at a lesser price.

Keep an eye out and ask around for good used high speed steel tools. The set you have may be HSS.

The Aussies have access to lots of timber with hardness and abrasiveness somewhere between concrete and granite. They really need the powder metal and carbide tools for some of the wood.

The UK and USA have mostly softer wood, which does not wear the edge off so quickly.

Welcome, and happy turning.

Originally Posted by Chrome

In your opinions would it be better to buy individual older tools like Sorby, Henry Taylor or similar and gradually build up a set of older and mis-matched but quality tools thus replacing the 'made in China' or stick with my 'cheap set' until I can save enough for a better full set?

Yes, I have always suggested this strategy to anyone starting out. The advantage of your current 'cheap set' is it lets you know what each tool does. Then as you feel the need to replace any of them you can take your time to do that one or two tools at a time. That way the pain in the hip pocket will be lessened (or noticed) by spreading your purchases out over time which will then allow you to purchase better quality tools each time.

IMO, second hand quality tools are an excellent way to upgrade. The truth of the matter is that, with rare exceptions, second hand tool will still have more HSS left in them than you will get to use in your life time, and they cost less. The disadvantage with this strategy is that turners don't tend to let their good tools go, even if they don't use them regularly. That is until we cease using them altogether, then they come onto the market as a rather large set. So you may have to wait awhile. Sometimes a collection of tools with some good makes amongst them will be bundled up with a second hand lathe. The lathe purchaser then ends up with lots of duplicates, some of which they will on-sell. The trading forum and ePay are the best sources.

However, cheap doesn't always mean poor quality HSS. For example, the cheap 1/4" HSS spindle gouge that I purchased from McJing has turned out to be as good as the most expensive HSS gouge I have. The only problem is that you never know how good they are going to be until you have purchased and used them. Quality brand-name tools can't afford such variability if they are to maintain their reputations, but not all of them get that right all of the time either.

Others may see it differently, but I don't find it a disadvantage to have a tool rack of different makes. For one thing, the quality of tools from one manufacturer can change over time and new makers with new and improved technologies come onto the market. I have also found that some makes/steels are more durable for rough turning and others hold a keener edge for finishing cuts; a luxury I know...

And, don't forget to invest in sharpening jigs or you will be wasting too much of that valuable high quality HSS and not getting the best out of then with predictable profiles and cutting edges.

Great answer Paul, you're absolutely right. Most of the video tutorials on the net you see have the mentor expecting ribbons of wood flying over your head when the reality of Australian timbers allows us to create nothing but dust or small curlys or shavings. After 3 or so years I'm still learning how to sharpen.

Scott, I cheated and got the Tormek.

Chrome, I started with the elcheapo Chinese Carbon Steel set, then an elcheapo HSS set, then second hand P&N, Sorby etc. After a few years I knew what I liked to do and concentrated buying the tools for that type of turning. I mainly bowl turn so bowl gouges are my main purchase, but I do have a good basic set of Spindle tools collected along the way.

The best way to find what tools work for what turning is to join a club/ pay someone for hands on instruction.

Scott, try some green Camphor for streaming ribbons over your shoulder

Thanks everybody for some fantastic advice, all duly noted and absorbed
I'm lucky enough to have a Sheppach 2500 sharpening system arriving in the next few days, a birthday present from my father. As a yoof (some 30 years ago), I spent a lot of time helping him with projects that often involved a lot of woodwork and he's got quite a bit of experience he's passed down, but turning is new to me, so this advice is really appreciated. I should have fun sharpening everything up... and as suggested will use 'el cheapos' to practice that.

To be frank I quite like the older tools as I can often pick up great chisels, files, planes etc. at car boot sales here. Often the seller has cleared out grandads loft or similar and simply has no idea of the value of these tools; I often get three chisels for one pound sterling. They only need a clean and edge putting on them and sometimes a new handle. Problem is I never see any lathe tools.

Thanks for taking time to respond with your advice and comments (however brusque).
Cheers again,
Chrome

Hi Chrome, Full marks to NeilS for his post. He has neatly encapsulated the issues involved here in a few succient phrases or sentences.I have been turning semi professionally and sometimes full time professionally for close on 30 years. There is absolutely nothing wrong with so called old fashioned carbon steel tools. They are very very easy and quick to sharpen and they take a great edge albeit for not very long. My two favorite tools are a 32 mm English pattern shallow gouge and a 25 mm English pattern shallow gouge both in carbon steel and bought in flea markets for a few buttons and a small hatchet. I've sharpened about 40 mm off each of those two little beauties in the last 10 years but I've got a few more in the freezer for when they are worn out!. Carbon steel isn't rubbish it's carbon steel. Now mild steel that's just plain rubbish but it has a place in beefing up concrete and the like but not in wood turning tools.

I was interested that none of the posts on this one mentioned that the more turning you do and the more competent you become the less tools you use. For the range of work I do on spindle turning I hardly ever go past three or four tools. I see "new" tools advertised all the time such as those for producing bead and cove profiles. My advice is to avoid those sort of tools that attempt to substiture a profiled scraper for hand and eye skills.Learn how to sharpen a 9mm gouge up to a long point and then how how to use it and you have a half a dozen tools in your hands in one unit. Set yourself a target to work towards and i suggest ' I want to reach the point where I don't ever sand with a grit coarser than 150' as an achievable ambition. Spend 100 hrs turning all the old traditional profiles in knot free radiator pine before you even try to make anything. That way you will be producing turned stock with a gentle shine on most of it and no bruised wood whatever. My old adage to my students was "it's pretty easy to turn one thing close to a plan but it's not that easy to turn out 400 of them ( stair spindles) within a couple of mm in the length profile and say 1 mm in the dia. profile day in and day out".

Anyway I probably need to change my wine merchant to one with lower profile alcohols in their brews but welcome to the wood turning fraterinity.

Cheers Old Pete

G'day chrome,
I generally don't add my two bob's worth to these posts as like you I'm a novice and don't feel that I can contribute given the vast experience available on the forum. However, in this instance I think I've been where you are now. I bought a 2nd hand lathe a while back that came with a set of chinese HSS tools, had a bit of a bash before heading off to a local retailer who ran a day course. two pieces of solid advice I was given which worked wonders for me:
1/ Join a club
2/ Persevere with the el cheapo HSS tools for a little while ( a bit of a surprise given that I was ready to spend the readies on a new set!).
With point 2, he reasoned that it takes a bit to become reasonably competent at sharpening and couldn't see the point in grinding away good quality steel. He was definitely right in that I made a real mess of my inital attempts and even with a good jig, maintaining a good bevel angle and prevention of burning the daylights out of the edge was problematic. Much better practised on a cheaper set than your new you-beaut Sorby/Hamlet/Taylor.
As for joining a club, in my experience these guys are more than willing to guide you though the nuances of tool maintenance as well as the right techniques of turning. Absolutely the best thiing I've done.
I have now swung across to mostly Hamlet tools which I love but if I want to try a new profile I'll reach for the old Chinese HSS to try before working on the 'good uns'.

Os.

G`day Chrome the reason I say no is when I started turning I bought the $200 green piece of crap the gouges that came with the lathe have no resemblence to the gouges i have now they were complete junk. My woodturning took a dramatic turn for the better when I bought two gouges a 4mm spindle gouge and a 10mm bowl gouge Then I bought the flat steel from Mcjings for any other chisels I needed I have aquired some name brand chisels over the years aswell.. I have learnt to sharpen free hand and stiil use both of those chisels reguarly abit they are a bit shorter than ten or so years ago my point being that the microns i have taken off learning to sharpen have been insignificant(P&N). Actually trying to learn to use a jig i will not name I lost about 40mm off the gouge. Until I can afford a wet grinder I will be happy with the sparky.
Goodluck with your turning Mick