Thread: Variable Speed Lathe Interrupts Internet

Hmmmm.... pretty dodgy. First question, how far is it from the modem?

The reason I ask is that there are two ways to get interference from electrical appliances. The first is through your power wiring and the second is through the aether. If your appliance is really bad both.

If the lathe is a long physical distance from the modem then it is interference over the power wiring. There are several things you can do to address this.

First place the lathe on a different circuit to the modem. If you have multiple phases aven better but on different circuit breakers will help.

Next use an interference suppression power board for the modem, and maybe also for the lathe. What this does is puts a small RF filter in the power line which stops the interfering signals getting from the lathe to your power wiring (if you put the board on the lathe side) and stops interference from the power wiring getting into the modem. You can get these from most supermarkets and Bunnings. Do NOT go to HN or the good guys. The Monster brand is overpriced junk. Trust me - my wife got one as a "bonus" with our net TV and after it stopped working I took it apart. It was well up to the standard of cheap Chinese junk ebay quality. It was a failure waiting to happen.

Make sure the phone line does not run near the lathe or near the power wiring from the lathe.

That just about covers the power interference. As for the over the air interference there is not much you can do about that other than keeping both the phone line and the modem as far as physically possible from the lathe.

If you are good at engineering then you could use an earthed metal enclosure for the speed control which is most likely where the interference is coming from. However you may also need to enclose the motor if it does not have a metal case but you have to take air flow into consideration.

Good luck in any case. Interference can be a pesky problem, even for experts.

John

I should also add that if it is fairly new then it sounds like it may not pass the RFI emission standards in which case you may be eligible for repair, replacement or refund. I am not up with the latest legislation but first contact the reseller and if you get no joy there then contact the ACCC who can advise you.

Thanks Yanis for your comprehensive answer. Physically the lathe and modem are about 18m and lots of walls apart (only 1 brick wall though). I'm not sure if they're on the same power point circuit. I will look into the suppression power board at first. The lathe is just 1 year old from new but I'm about 300km from the shop so that's a bit of a problem. I will call them and ask anyway.

Cheers,
Bruce

Interesting question
My SWMBO asked me on the weekend if the dusty could effect the efficacy of the internet connection
I suggested it was unlikely, then I wondered whether the DVR could have an impact
I thought it was unlikely as they are on different circuits (shed has it's own) and it is quite some distance from the modem (but then again the modem is a cheap and nasty)

I have 9 machines on variable speed drives in my shed and they put out a fair RF hash as heard on the AM radio that was in my shed.
This was addressed by getting a digital radio but I was so worried it might upset the neighbours that I did check the level of AM interference outside the shed and found it was barely detectable outside the shed which is clad in metal - some of it is a double skin of metal.

I suspect the noise is coming down the power line so Yanis's tips should work for you there.
If you have an easily accessible 12V car battery and the modem runs on 12V you could try using that and see if it still drops out.

Is it the wireless connections or the whole ADSL connection - have you tried with an ethernet cable from PC direct to the modem?

Good point, it certainly kills the wireless but I haven't tried the cable connected PC. I will try that once my son's uni assignment is finished

Bruce

My VSDs give the am radio a lot of interference, no issues with the internet as yet, all computer gadgets are plugged into a surge protector board, whether there is some filtering in there as well I don't know.

The solution (or so my instructions tell me) to the am radio interference is the correct type of the cable from the VSD to the motor and all control wiring, the cabling has a layer of woven metal (steel?) strands and will be earthed at the VSD and at the motor.



Pete

Big question here ...

Does your router to internet connection drop ? Or your device to router connection ?... Which I think you indicated was wireless.

802.11a/b/g/n use 2.4ghz.

In the early days of wireless, it was quite common for EM interference to clobber a connection. Things like microwave ovens were notorious.

If its WiFi session drop you are suffering a newer 802.11ac router may (stress MAY) help.

I will do a little research and if I find anything, will let you know.

Have you tried changing WiFi channel ?

Interesting subjects "electro magnetic interference" (EMI) & "electro magnetic compatibility" EMC - and a very important topics for turners who have implanted medical devices such as defibrillators & pacemakers.

One could say it is a matter very close to my heart as I have a defib/pacemaker so I am very aware of EMI & EMC and potential risks from "normally operating" and "faulty" equipment.

Medical device manufacturers and medical/cardiac specialists issue warnings and cautions to patients about the potential risks to their medical devices from EMI and what they consider to be "high risk" tasks, tools, machinery etc.

If it is reasonably proven that the lathe or any device is creating interference to other electronic devices it would be prudent to report it to the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) as they are the body responsible for managing EMI compliance in Australia.

Under Australian legislation electrical/electronic devices are classified as low/medium/high risk devices. Medium level devices include switched & microprocessor controlled motors on lathes; high level devices include welders etc, Both med/high have potential to cause EMI and must conform with standards for EMC. http://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Supp...ance-labelling

"Suppliers" (manufacturer & or importer) must ensure that they certify that their devices comply with EMC requirements by testing equipment, applying for registration of compliance, marking tools/machinery etc with the appropriate compliance mark & keeping records - http://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Supp...mpliance-marks

I would consider adding a dV/dt or sine filter to the feed and motor side of the VSD.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Bruce, you may want to repost this in the Electronics section of the Forum as there are some really cluey guys over there that may not read it here in Wood turning.
Rgds,
Crocy.

Hi,

I have posted this in the Electronics section as suggested. Just as a follow up to the questions and suggestions:

I have since tested things a bit more and found that the internet connection is momentarily cut when I start the lathe (just like turning the power off to the modem) but it then restores the connection in the next minute even though the lathe is still running. Both WiFi and internet cable services are effected. I have tried using a surge protector at the lathe end and then at the modem end but this has not helped. The surge protector is a Belkin BV104020au2M but I don't know if this is a low quality one or not. Pardon my ignorance but is this the same thing as an "interference suppression power board"? The modem is a TP-Link N600.

Thanks,
Bruce

Originally Posted by BCC

Hi,

The surge protector is a Belkin BV104020au2M but I don't know if this is a low quality one or not. Pardon my ignorance but is this the same thing as an "interference suppression power board" as suggested on the other forum? The modem is a TP-Link N600.

Thanks,
Bruce

OK this device does surge protection (flattens out spikes which can destroy some equipment) and filtration which was what I was talking about.

Form your update it seems to me that there are two possibilities. The first is a "brown out" which is a momentary drop in mains voltage due to the start up current on the lathe motor. This may be caused by a wiring fault coupled with the high start up current on the motor. Or just a long power run from the fuse box to the appliances such as the motor and the modem. There is an easy way to test this. Grab a table lamp and put in one of the old fashioned incandescent lights. CFLs or LED lights are no good for this test. First plug in the light to the same power point (using a double adapter or power board) as you lathe and start the lathe. You should see the light noticeably dim as your lathe starts. If it does move the light to the power point where the modem is then get someone to start the lathe while you watch the light. If it shows the same dimming as you start the lathe then this could be the cause. Now modern power supplies are designed so that they should be able to cope with this but if the unit is getting oldish then it may have developed a fault and be dropping out when you get a small voltage drop as you start the lathe motor. If this is the case then get a replacement plug pack for the modem (or a ne modem). The plug pack are usually 12V at about 1 amp but take it into Jaycar who can supply a replacement plug pack.

The second option is that as the controler circuit starts it is generating some serious hash. In this case my previous recommendations still apply. It may be that the surge protection is not filtering the actual interference. It gets somewhat confusing at this stage but the type of interference that will produce noise on AM radio is different to what would interfere with a modem signal.

You can test whether the devices are on the same circuit bu flipping breakers in your power board.

John

Originally Posted by BCC

Hi,

I have posted this in the Electronics section as suggested. Just as a follow up to the questions and suggestions:

I have since tested things a bit more and found that the internet connection is momentarily cut when I start the lathe (just like turning the power off to the modem) but it then restores the connection in the next minute even though the lathe is still running. Both WiFi and internet cable services are effected. I have tried using a surge protector at the lathe end and then at the modem end but this has not helped. The surge protector is a Belkin BV104020au2M but I don't know if this is a low quality one or not. Pardon my ignorance but is this the same thing as an "interference suppression power board"? The modem is a TP-Link N600.

Thanks,
Bruce

No they are different - the surge protects against a large INPUT increase in Amplitude or voltage from the supply, a interference suppression power board prevents transmission of high frequencies back long the power lines.

The fact that drop out only happens when the lathe starts suggests its motor induces large voltage drop on the power line - have you checked if the lathe and modern are on the same circuit?
If this is the problem then neither of the above will fix the problem.

A soft start device would eliminate the V drop. I don't know if this is compatible with your EVS system
Most generic variable speed power supplies provide soft start as a programmable standard - sounds like another good reason to get a VFD.