Thread: Vicmarc tool rest issues

Please bear in mind I am a self taught novice turner, but this is how I do it. It seems to work for me. Sorry for the phone pics, thoughtless son is using his camera

I meant to mention, your pics show a 'catch' waiting to happen as the tool is pivoting too far back.

Groggy, your pics show exactly what the problem is.

Raising the rest as you show certainly lets you gain top-of-the-rest tool support, but you are far too high as I see it. I may be wrong, but if you cut that way, you are almost (if not) sheer scraping, not cutting. The angle of approach for the wood to the tool must be lower if you are to get a nice cut. High approach angles may well work for spindle work, given there is no end grain to deal with. But not for bowl work.

So help me guys! Skew? Ern? Calm? Where are you?

Now "abused" me for days for my tool rest work, until he finally concluded the rest bevel angle wasn't right. And is mooching somewhere, on the road home, honey-mooning an anniversay (congrats and Julie).

Talk to me guys and please try to educate me and (maybe others).

Jeff

The pic was taken in that position to show the bevel presenting to the timber. In Raffan's books he shows a similar approach except the tool is somewhat angled to the rest (not at 90 deg like my pic) and rolled over about 30 degrees. His rests appear to be marginally lower than center.

I'll sit out now and see what the experts have to say.

I'm sorry I deleted my original reply now.

My favourite rest has a small dia. steel rod, I'd guess 4 or 5mm, braized across the top.

This has the effect of making that back bevel much steeper.

I can undelete it if you like Skew

Groggy, I'll sit back too.

My Mike Darlow DVD goes into some detail (way too much for me) about the angle of approach of the wood to the tool. Sub-surface damage, macro / micro surfaces ..... all too technical for me! But some of it sank in and IMHO think that you need to be cutting as low as you can.

I roll the gouge over as you (I think quite rightly) suggest - otherwise, you would only be cutting on the tip. But the problem remains. If I want to cut with the tool rest high (not ideal), the Vicmarc rests provide full support, but not otherwise.

I've reloaded my pics with higher definition. The first one shows the tool high and off the rest, the second with both bevels rubbing and preferably lower. But the rest should not dictate the angle I choose!

Attachment 105514

Attachment 105515

What I try to do with both spindle and bowl work is to follow the so-called golden rules:

- tool on the rest first
- rub the bevel
- lift the tool to begin the cut
- change the cutting angle to get the optimum 45 degree angle

This may mean raising or lowering the rest, depending on the tool eg. raising the rest as you part a large cylinder. But if you are trying to cut at the Mike Darlow approved approach angle, it should not be high.

Ouch. I can feel the barbs coming already! Here to learn though so fire away.

Jeff

Originally Posted by DJ's Timber

I can undelete it if you like Skew

Nar. I've already repeated the gist of it, only without quite so much waffle.

Sorry Skew for waffling so much. I just had so many problems with the pics that it's taken a couple of days to bring the issue to light.

I'll take to task when I see him. He was supposed to discuss the matter with others higher up the food chain.....

Jeff

No need to apologise Jefferson, I meant I trimmed off all of my waffle.

Originally Posted by Groggy

Please bear in mind I am a self taught novice turner, but this is how I do it. It seems to work for me. Sorry for the phone pics, thoughtless son is using his camera

...
Groggy, quite a good explanation with your pictures.
I must say that is exactly the technique I have been and stell am teaching to beginners.
I am convinced than to avoid catches this is quite a suitable way to ensure a safe progression of the movement until you finally have the bevel on the wood prior to start to produce nice shavings and a nice finish at the same time.

I don't do much spindle work but was taught to have the top of the rest about a thumb's thickness above the centre height for gouge and skew work. That would solve your problem I imagine Jeff.

You say this would be too high. Yes it would for scraping, but for cutting wouldn't the geometry stay the same and the arm/hand/tool just come up a bit?

Some turners learn and get used to a partic tool height and may not like a higher presentation but that's not to say it won't work.

Hmm, I'm still trying to make sense of the problem.

The rest 'bevel' shouldn't determine the presentation but looking at your pic perhaps at those angles you get some rocking between the two edges on the rest.

What's the bevel angle on that gouge Jeff? Looks a bit steeper than a trad spindle gouge; if so, what happens if the bevel is at 30 degrees?

Originally Posted by rsser

Hmm, I'm still trying to make sense of the problem.

The rest 'bevel' shouldn't determine the presentation but looking at your pic perhaps at those angles you get some rocking between the two edges on the rest.

What's the bevel angle on that gouge Jeff? Looks a bit steeper than a trad spindle gouge; if so, what happens if the bevel is at 30 degrees?

Ern, it's a bowl gouge. I'd be guessing at the bevel angle, maybe 60 degrees but I'll check.

I'll also read up some more today!

Jeff