What's in a name?

**RETIRED** · 17th August 2012, 05:25 PM

rant prompted by watching so many people using the wrong tools for the job or bad techniques..

A lot it seems if you are into woodturning.

When I was learning to turn with an English turner there were only 3 names of grinds on spindle gouges, numerous bevel angles but only 3 grinds.

They were: Straight across as in Spindle Roughing gouges, a thumbnail grind which is shaped like the lunula (look it up) and a lady fingernail grind.

There were only 3 types of gouges. All hammer forged from flat bar. Round gouges were only coming onto the market at this time.

They were: Spindle roughing gouge,
Attachment 219645

spindle gouge, shaped like a crescent
Attachment 219646

and a long and stong detail gouge that initially was hammer forged but later machined from an oblong bar.
Attachment 219647 Attachment 219648 Attachment 219649

These have a shallow flute and a rounded base. They were mainly used for doing work a long way from the rest as in posts or larger diameter legs.

These all came in various sizes and lengths but the shape was basically the same for each type.

These terms were easy to understand and gave a perfect desription of the desired shape and style of tool when trying to describe it to someone.

Comes to today and we have so much confusion about names of tools and grinds brought about by misinformation from manufacturers, suppliers, some demonstrators, some club tutors (that's another rant) and others that have not had the oppurtunity for correct tutoring.

Thumbnail grind seems to have been taken over by the description "fingernail grind" can mean any where from almost straight across to a lady fingernail grind, not very helpful when someone is trying to desdribe the shape.

Spindle gouges now come in traditional (original shape as above), round, continental, shallow fluted, detail (long and strong pattern), detail (round bar) German style and probably others I have missed.

To add to the confusion we also have bowl gouges (all with different flute styles) with grinds like Celtic, Ellsworth, O'Neill, Irish, O'Donnell and swept back plus a plethora of people and manufacturers saying that their particular grind is superior to all others.

These grinds are all good for a certain style of turning and suit the style of the turner whose name it is but it may not be right for all turners and in some cases are very hard for a beginner to get to grips with and have success.

My advice for new turners is to start with a traditional set of tools with normal grinds, learn spindle turning from someone who uses the correct tools, including the skew chisel, and then go and do bowls and play around with different grinds and shapes.

You will save yourself a lot of money not buying useless gimmicks and you will learn how tools work which will make you a better turner.

**rod1949** · 17th August 2012, 06:24 PM

It's called evolution.

Like the simple horse and buggy evolved into cars and how many makes do we have today.

**artme** · 17th August 2012, 06:34 PM

Good thoughts .

Perhaps it's really how you use the tools that counts. I marvel at How Japanese turners use tools for work that most of us would never dream of tackling.

**Tim the Timber Turner** · 17th August 2012, 09:04 PM

G'day

After agreeing with me twice in one week and having a big rant, I recommend a cup of tea (where are you AM) and good lie down.

Cheers

Tim

**hughie** · 18th August 2012, 09:03 AM

You will save yourself a lot of money not buying useless gimmicks and you will learn how tools work which will make you a better turner

...you might be fighting a losing battle. The inherrent desire to own tools especially the latest and greatest seems to be greatest with turners. Add to that the Baby Boomers are the most cashed up generation the world has seen.

But if its any consolation I do aggree with you.

**Paul39** · 18th August 2012, 09:33 AM

: You will save yourself a lot of money not buying useless gimmicks and you will learn how tools work which will make you a better turner.

Hear! Hear!!

Bob Stocksdale used only a 5/8 inch (shaft size) bowl gouge for almost all his bowls.

https://www.google.com/search?num=10...ac.GczZPcvVPbQ

**RETIRED** · 18th August 2012, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by rod1949

It's called evolution.

Like the simple horse and buggy evolved into cars and how many makes do we have today.

That is my point.

In most cases it is not evolution but a rehashed version of something else in a fancy packet and price tag.

People buy them because they think it will make them a better turner and it is the tools fault they can't use it.

**RETIRED** · 18th August 2012, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by artme

Good thoughts .

Perhaps it's really how you use the tools that counts.

My point exactly.

**RETIRED** · 18th August 2012, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Tim the Timber Turner

G'day

After agreeing with me twice in one week and having a big rant, I recommend a cup of tea (where are you AM) and good lie down.

Cheers

Tim

Oh the stress of it all.

**RETIRED** · 18th August 2012, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by hughie

...you might be fighting a losing battle. The inherrent desire to own tools especially the latest and greatest seems to be greatest with turners. Add to that the Baby Boomers are the most cashed up generation the world has seen.

But if its any consolation I do aggree with you.

See answer above.

**Cliff Rogers** · 18th August 2012, 06:12 PM

They all look like scrapers to me.

Those flattish ones could be good for opening paint tins & stirring the paint.

**rod1949** · 18th August 2012, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by

That is my point.

In most cases it is not evolution but a rehashed version of something else in a fancy packet and price tag.

People buy them because they think it will make them a better turner and it is the tools fault they can't use it.

Exactly exactly

**powderpost** · 18th August 2012, 08:57 PM

I am now convinced you may even know what you are talking about.

The same thoughts apply to tool sharpening and how sharp a tool should be. Now there is a can of worms????

.
Jim

**powderpost** · 18th August 2012, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Tim the Timber Turner

I recommend a cup of tea (where are you AM) and good lie down.

Tim you forgot about the "bex" to go with the good lie down..

Jim

**Tim the Timber Turner** · 18th August 2012, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by powderpost

Tim you forgot about the "bex" to go with the good lie down..

Jim

Bex!

Now that will confuse them on the other side of the planet.

Perhaps we should offer a prize for the best guess?

Any suggestions?

Cheers

Tim

Now what was the original post about?

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