Thread: New to wood turning

Originally Posted by jackliveshere

I'm curious on opinions of buying cheap tools when you are a total beginner.

I tend to agree with you. Not only for the initial cost factor, but because a beginner needs to learn to sharpen. Few people buy a sharpening jig right off the bat and so start at the deep end: freehand sharpening.

There are two types of people; those who'll throw their hands in the air and scrimp'n'save to buy a jig or those who'll persevere and learn the art of freehanding.

They also give an idea of which good quality tools to buy first; they'll be the ones that are used the most.

And the ones that aren't use at all? There'll come a time when a turner wants to experiment with different grinds, captive rings, etc... and the unused tools provide a ready made vehicle for experimenting without ruining the regular "users."

Yes the sharpening factor is another good point. I'd hate to buy a $90 tool as a beginner and start muffing it up all over the place cause I can't sharpen! haha. I'd feel terrible and get down about it. Definitely a place for mid-level starter sets to get going - and hey I even use all the 6 tools from my start set regularly and it allows me to hone my skills for each one. Once they are worn out I will upgrade one at a time to a nice flash one

Originally Posted by jackliveshere

I'm curious on opinions of buying cheap tools when you are a total beginner. The thread was started by someone who hadn't done any turning at all. From my point of view, I don't see much use in out laying lots of cash without knowing whether you like it and want to keep going. I reckon those $150 set of 6 tools isn't bad value to get you going - they are HSS, hold an edge well and will get you going. Spending $90 on a single tool and having to buy at a minimum 3 to get you going is a bit more of an outlay then $150. Say you bought 6 tools @ $90 a tool, you are out $540.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for quality tools as I have stated in other threads and I will buy them from now on when I need them as I progress as a beginner turner - but as a starter without knowing anything about turning and whether it will be liked, I don't think it can be justified.

Also I'm curious about recommendations on buying tools straight away without handles. How are you to turn handles as a novice without having any handled tools to turn with?? Again i'm all for turning handles yourself and I have done so, but without any tools at first?

I stand by my origional comment. Most of the cheap starter kits contain chisels that are useless. None of them contain a true bowl gouge, which makes turning bowls hard work. If you are concerned about spending money on tools, join a club and use theirs.

What is the definition of a true bowl gouge then? I would say it's a gouge that enables you to shape a bowl I might be just a newbie, but if I can turn a bowl use the 'bowl gouge' that is in those $150 starter kits, then isn't it not a bowl gouge?

A 'chisel that is useless' as you have put it, would be a chisel that CANNOT be used to turn something would it not? Well obviously that's not true - they can't be useless as they have been used to turn things....all 6 chisels in the set and they will be used over and over again to turn things. Just because it's not a $90 name brand chisel, doesn't make it useless. It's as good as the person who is using it in my opinion.

Some people don't have time for clubs etc and just want to get going in the hobby of turning. These chisel sets provide a good introductory set where someone can pick up turning easily and produce quality turnings.

Rob, I've got a spare 3/8 bowl gouge I can send you.

PM me your address and it's yours. It's one of those NZ jobs with the replaceable tips. (Someone might know the breed).

Jeff

Woodcut?

Don't buy the cheap tools in most cases the steel wont hold an edge and you will get very frustrated. P&N's are a good choice with very good steel and Hamlet make good tools as well and are very affordable. Woodcut are excellent with replacement tips and cost very little to replace, when worn down.
Robbie

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

Woodcut?

Skew, a Woodcut it is. Thanks for reminding me!

Jeff

Originally Posted by jackliveshere

A 'chisel that is useless' as you have put it, would be a chisel that CANNOT be used to turn something would it not? Well obviously that's not true - they can't be useless as they have been used to turn things....all 6 chisels in the set and they will be used over and over again to turn things. Just because it's not a $90 name brand chisel, doesn't make it useless. It's as good as the person who is using it in my opinion.

Some people don't have time for clubs etc and just want to get going in the hobby of turning. These chisel sets provide a good introductory set where someone can pick up turning easily and produce quality turnings.

The problems as I see them with the cheap sets are thet they are often made with lesser quality steels, often carbon steel. They will form an edge off the grinder but will not hold it for very long. Consequently, you end up going back to the grinder frequently.

Imagine it like you are learning to drive a car. Picture if each time you moved off in the car, you had to stop when you had driven 3 kilometres, get out and walk round the car before getting back in and driving away again. Just as you have got to a point where you have everything working smoothly in co-ordination, you have to stop, move away from the controls, carry out another task and then try all over again to get back to the point you were at previously. That would be the carbon steel, cheaper tool.

A blunt tool is what can lead to catches, bites and these can lead to accidents on the lathe. Additionally, the novice turner can fall into the trap of persisting with a blunt tool which can only lead to frustration.

Frustration with tearout, uneven surfaces, burnish marks and generally poor surfaces overall. I would argue that it is extremely difficult to get a good quality finish off the tool with a cheaper quality tool. To rectify this you just spend much more time going through the various grits of sandpaper, losing much of the shape definition that you worked for in the first place.

You then end up not enjoying yourself or the result of your turnings.

Good quality tools will not hold an edge forever, but they will hold it for a damn sight longer than a cheap tool. There is a huge difference between the end results obtained from carbon steel vs high speed steel.

HSS tools allow you to continue the learning process in our metaphorical car for a greater distance, say 20=25 kilometres before you have to stop the car and get out to walk around it.

If you do decide to give away the hobby, it is much easier and you are more likely to recoup a higher amount of your outlay if you sell off your chisels, if they are good quality tools. I would imagine that most people are likely to buy good quality second hand turning tools than poor/average quality ones.

Firstly thank you to everyone for the great advice. And thank you heaps to Jeff for the fantastic offer. I was going to be going with the cheaper set due to finances. But with Jeff sending me the 3/8 Bowl Gouge I can now justify buying the other 2 chisels to start my collection. I will be going to Melbourne tomorrow for some fun with my kids and back on Weds so I will buy the Carba Tec lathe on Thurs and hope to start my hobby

Oh also more good news...spoke with my boss earlier...he can get me heaps of huon pine offcuts for nothing and any huon pine pieces I need he can get real cheap....he is asking about other timbers as well

You are more than welcome to call in here if in Melb. You never know what might happen. May get a quick lesson, you never know.

Originally Posted by Ray153

The problems as I see them with the cheap sets are thet they are often made with lesser quality steels, often carbon steel. They will form an edge off the grinder but will not hold it for very long. Consequently, you end up going back to the grinder frequently.

Imagine it like you are learning to drive a car. Picture if each time you moved off in the car, you had to stop when you had driven 3 kilometres, get out and walk round the car before getting back in and driving away again. Just as you have got to a point where you have everything working smoothly in co-ordination, you have to stop, move away from the controls, carry out another task and then try all over again to get back to the point you were at previously. That would be the carbon steel, cheaper tool.

A blunt tool is what can lead to catches, bites and these can lead to accidents on the lathe. Additionally, the novice turner can fall into the trap of persisting with a blunt tool which can only lead to frustration.

Frustration with tearout, uneven surfaces, burnish marks and generally poor surfaces overall. I would argue that it is extremely difficult to get a good quality finish off the tool with a cheaper quality tool. To rectify this you just spend much more time going through the various grits of sandpaper, losing much of the shape definition that you worked for in the first place.

You then end up not enjoying yourself or the result of your turnings.

Good quality tools will not hold an edge forever, but they will hold it for a damn sight longer than a cheap tool. There is a huge difference between the end results obtained from carbon steel vs high speed steel.

HSS tools allow you to continue the learning process in our metaphorical car for a greater distance, say 20=25 kilometres before you have to stop the car and get out to walk around it.

If you do decide to give away the hobby, it is much easier and you are more likely to recoup a higher amount of your outlay if you sell off your chisels, if they are good quality tools. I would imagine that most people are likely to buy good quality second hand turning tools than poor/average quality ones.

Yeah that is fair enough for REAL cheap sets. but if you have read my posts, the set I am talking about and is a good introductory set is HSS and holds an edge well.

I agree with carbon steel sets, but have never been talking about a carbon steel set.

Originally Posted by

You are more than welcome to call in here if in Melb. You never know what might happen. May get a quick lesson, you never know.

Cubjo,

I urge you to take up 's offer for lessons. I'm not sure exactly how many Little Grasshoppers has under his wing at the moment, but Tea Lady and I are getting better (hopefully!).

He's a rough diamond our , but he does very well in helping the new hands along.

A word of warning though. Be prepared for plenty of cups of tea.

Jeff

Originally Posted by KenW

Will, I don't agree with the advice given to you about a cheap starter set of tools.
Most cheap sets have tools that are not the correct shape. You will find learning using these tools frustrating. Buy good quality tools a couple at a time, you only need about five chisels to get started. Buy dry wood, you have access to some of the best timbers where you live.

I wouldn't be listening to advice from Ken W. about anything related to turning. He is, after all, a mere novice. On the Board stats anyway.

My last encounter with Ken cost me $1000 in chisels and other stuff and the bar keeps getting higher and higher....

PS. Have a search around on the forum for some of Ken's work. I don't remember the thread title exactly but it was something like: "Show me yours and I'll show you mine".

started it... then I posted some pics of Ken W's stuff and it all went very quiet.

A top crew of blokes here, esp. in Victoria. (We have some QLD'ers arrive too for our sessions, and they are great too. )

Jeff