Thread: New to wood turning

Originally Posted by jackliveshere

Yeah that is fair enough for REAL cheap sets. but if you have read my posts, the set I am talking about and is a good introductory set is HSS and holds an edge well.

I agree with carbon steel sets, but have never been talking about a carbon steel set.

Poor quality tools promote unsafe use of tools and bad habits. It is imposible to teach sharpening when tools are incorrect shape. I regularly teach beginners and the first thing I do is lend them good quality tools. It is easier to teach good turning habits than correct bad ones.
All of the people here who have been turning for years and teach beginners, have given the same advice, only you disagree.

As any of those who have visited (or met me) will know, I probably rate higher on the "tool addict" scale than most. I don't know exactly how many chisels I have right now, but by early next week the number will be over 50. It's not a brag-fest here. I can afford it - and some cannot unfortunately. That said, there are quite a few out there on the Board that make my collection of lathes and tools look ordinary. (Four Stubbies is an excess I would think).

I figure that if I have the best gear, then there's only one person to blame (that's you , DJ, Calm, Skew, Ern and more lately Ken W.) Not me, of course!

I've bought stacks of chisels that I will never grind down until worthless. And some rarely see use.

But I can say this: the tools that cost me most work the best.

I do a lot of work on redgum and the best chisels for the job are always my ASP 2060 Hamlets and my new HT Kryos. Plus my Ci1 and now the Ci0 for scraping work.

IMHO I would suggest that beginners:

- start with the higher-grade tools as you can afford (two good chisels, not five Chinese look-a-likes).
- learn to sharpen using jigs like the TrueGrind on the right wheels (or better still, get a Tormek)
- read all you like and watch DVDS, but get lessons first from an expert
- and then take lessons again when you think you're doing OK to get a re-fresher

My "must have" chisels (in the best steel that you can afford) are:

- a roughing gouge (P & N are my favourites)
- a 12mm or smaller spindle gouge
- a 12mm or smaller bowl gouge
- a decent parting tool
- a 19mm skew
- a Ci0 scraper for all kinds of hollowing-finishing cuts

Just my thoughts.

Three chisels alone though will get you started - a skew (for roughing, scraping, beads etc), a bowl gouge (handy for spindle work too, including coves) and a parting tool.

If you start to get addicted..... The horizon is almost too far away.

Jeff

It sounds like everyone has heaps of cash to throw around That is fine, but a lot of blokes don't.....especially when they haven't even started a hobby and don't know what it's like and whether they will be good at it. That is my point that no one is really reading.... I've also stated numerous times in this thread and others that I am all for good quality tools.

The difference being is how much you outlay as a brand new beginner without turning a thing and knowing what it's like and if you'll be good at it. If you have lots of disposable money, well that is fine, buy all the good quality tools you want, and if you throw the turning hobby away it won't matter as you can afford to blow the money. I can't....others can't. These introductory turning sets have a place for beginners to get them going.

You lot all gotta remember too that many of you have been turning for MANY MANY years and some are professional turners You lot have years of knowledge and experience, have probably used dozens if not hundreds of types, style and brands of tools and know what you like. How would someone who hasn't turned a brass razzo know what they like if they haven't tried it out? I think a lot of woodworking as a hobby is a discovery journey, you try things out and experiment as you go. You learn what works, what doesn't work, what you like and what you don't like.

Gotta a couple of questions that I would love to get some responses on from all you blokes who have been turning for ages.

• when you first started turning, whether it was 5 years, 10 years or 30 years ago, what tools did you start with then?? Try to think hard to the very first time you were turning. When did you buy your first tools and what were they?
• when you first started turning way back when, could you sharpen tools like a pro straight out of the box? or did it take time to learn the art?
• did you get into turning as a hobby or for income?
• Last one, after more recommendations for buying tools with no handles, no one has answered my original question from last week: how does a beginner turn handles for his new handle-less turning tools when he doesn't have any tools to begin with?

Originally Posted by Calm

• 10mm spindle gouge - useless for "normal" work too small really suited to detail work
• 13mm bowl gouge - would be handy to finish a bowl but not a high useage tool
• 22mm roughing gouge - great to "rough" down bl;anks on the spindle
• 18mm round nose scraper - best tool yet to get catches and scare the absolut bejesas out of you. too light to use with any overhang.
• 20mm diamond parting tool - good tool use a lot
• 25mm oval skew - another usefull tool

Calm, thanks for taking the time to consider the set instead of just writing it off straight up. I agree with the skew & parting tool as I use them a lot. I also use the spindle gouge for basically what you said, fine detail work. The roughing gouge i use a lot too and I can get a good finish off it which requires minimal sanding. Yes the bowl gouge is a little small, but nevertheless, you CAN turn a complete bowl with it and it will get you started in bowl turning Bit curious about the scraper though mate....I have never had any other scrapers, so it's all I've used - I find it quite easy to use, never had a catch and does a good job when sharp.

Originally Posted by KenW

Poor quality tools promote unsafe use of tools and bad habits. It is imposible to teach sharpening when tools are incorrect shape. I regularly teach beginners and the first thing I do is lend them good quality tools. It is easier to teach good turning habits than correct bad ones.
All of the people here who have been turning for years and teach beginners, have given the same advice, only you disagree.

Ken mate, I agree that poor quality tools promote unsafe use and lead to bad habits. Never said otherwise. Have you used this particular type of set I've been discussing Ken? I am not the only one who thinks these tools (which are manufactured and re-branded by numerous companies, not just Carbatec, I didn't even buy mine from Carbatec) are good entry level tools. I've read quite a few threads some time back, just did a quick search and here's some others:
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/set-tools-advice-47688
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/chisels-43992

Originally Posted by jefferson

As any of those who have visited (or met me) will know, I probably rate higher on the "tool addict" scale than most. I don't know exactly how many chisels I have right now, but by early next week the number will be over 50. It's not a brag-fest here. I can afford it - and some cannot unfortunately. That said, there are quite a few out there on the Board that make my collection of lathes and tools look ordinary. (Four Stubbies is an excess I would think).


But I can say this: the tools that cost me most work the best.


IMHO I would suggest that beginners:

- start with the higher-grade tools as you can afford (two good chisels, not five Chinese look-a-likes).
- learn to sharpen using jigs like the TrueGrind on the right wheels (or better still, get a Tormek)
- read all you like and watch DVDS, but get lessons first from an expert
- and then take lessons again when you think you're doing OK to get a re-fresher

Yes I'm sure that is true for most, good quality tools work the best. But as you mentioned in your first section, not everyone can afford them. Plus a Tormek still Mate you must be made of cash Jeff

Originally Posted by jackliveshere

.....................
Gotta a couple of questions that I would love to get some responses on from all you blokes who have been turning for ages.

• when you first started turning, whether it was 5 years, 10 years or 30 years ago, what tools did you start with then?? Try to think hard to the very first time you were turning. When did you buy your first tools and what were they?
• when you first started turning way back when, could you sharpen tools like a pro straight out of the box? or did it take time to learn the art?
• did you get into turning as a hobby or for income?
• Last one, after more recommendations for buying tools with no handles, no one has answered my original question from last week: how does a beginner turn handles for his new handle-less turning tools when he doesn't have any tools to begin with?

Calm, thanks for taking the time to consider the set instead of just writing it off straight up. I agree with the skew & parting tool as I use them a lot. I also use the spindle gouge for basically what you said, fine detail work. The roughing gouge i use a lot too and I can get a good finish off it which requires minimal sanding. Yes the bowl gouge is a little small, but nevertheless, you CAN turn a complete bowl with it and it will get you started in bowl turning Bit curious about the scraper though mate....I have never had any other scrapers, so it's all I've used - I find it quite easy to use, never had a catch and does a good job when sharp.



Ken mate, I agree that poor quality tools promote unsafe use and lead to bad habits. Never said otherwise. Have you used this particular type of set I've been discussing Ken? I am not the only one who thinks these tools (which are manufactured and re-branded by numerous companies, not just Carbatec, I didn't even buy mine from Carbatec) are good entry level tools. I've read quite a few threads some time back, just did a quick search and here's some others:
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/set-tools-advice-47688
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/chisels-43992



Yes I'm sure that is true for most, good quality tools work the best. But as you mentioned in your first section, not everyone can afford them. Plus a Tormek still Mate you must be made of cash Jeff

Will
you said it yourself out of the set of 6 you only use or consider 3 of them as "use all the time" which means you bought 3 for "occasional use" the skew is a fatr better scraper than the scraper in that set.

Also to another point of yours i started with a chinese set of 'soft steel" tools - worst decision i ever made - they wouldnt hold an edge - i thought it was my technique or sharpening and was so frustrated - the stuff i was making was so "second rate" it was embarrasing - then i met Ern and he showed me his chisels and allowed me to use them (on his Stubby) and that was when i realised there are tools and there are tools.

YOU are the one not listening or reading OUR posts - you keep coming back to this cheap set when there appears to be a majority of other members stating that that is not the best way to go

YOU have your head in the sand and think your opinion is the only one that maybe right. I suggest you take a good read of the other posts and think that maybe they might know.

This forum is about people giving their opinion so what makes you think your opinion is the only one thats right, you have no idea of the qualifications/experience of other posters just the same as we have no idea of yours. Jefferson (who is the biggest self confessed tool slut out) even said in his post that he realises not everyone can afford what he buys but he suggested a list (of single tools) and still recommended good quality tools. He is a newby that is experiencing the difficulties of learning and realises how much easier it is with the correct tools.

When you are an experienced turner you maybe able to use tools not quite suited to the job but until you learn, using the wrong tools and inferior tools will not give you confidence in what you can do.

So, after a lot of thought and reading the other posts, for you and the OP i suggest the following as a starting set. Prices from CWS

25mm Skew also to be used as a scraper Skew Chisel 18x6mm Unhandled <!-- - 05-120 -->

<table> </table><table> </table> $ 69.75



Parting tool
Parting Off Tool 3x12mm Unhandled <!-- - 05-134 -->

<table> </table> $ 47.00
Roughing gouge
Roughing Gouge 25mm Unhandled <!-- - 05-115 -->

<table> </table> $ 119.85

Supaflute bowl gouge 3/8 which is actually 1/2 diameter steel
Bowl Gouge 12mm Unhandled <!-- - bowgoug12un -->

<table> </table> $ 54.45



With more thought the other suggestion i make is buy a jig to grind with at the start - that will make your tools last longer and help you get it right straight away. Frankly shatrpening freehand is only for the experts and does absolutely nothing too boost confidence in what you want to do and that iss make stuff.



This is a good starting one Tru Grind Sharpening System $189


The reason i buy tools unhandles is it si cheaper and fun to make the handles to a shape that suits you - how to make them well i have seen tehm made with a unhandled roughing gouge or even go to a fellow member and i'm sure they would help or lend tools to get you started.


That is about $ 450 and frankly if you cant afford that to "get into" a hobby you cant afford the hobby. If he decides he doesnt like the hobby these tools are all saleablw items at 50% of the new price right here on the forum.

Cheers

Originally Posted by jackliveshere

It sounds like everyone has heaps of cash to throw around That is fine, but a lot of blokes don't.....especially when they haven't even started a hobby and don't know what it's like and whether they will be good at it. That is my point that no one is really reading.... I've also stated numerous times in this thread and others that I am all for good quality tools.

The difference being is how much you outlay as a brand new beginner without turning a thing and knowing what it's like and if you'll be good at it. If you have lots of disposable money, well that is fine, buy all the good quality tools you want, and if you throw the turning hobby away it won't matter as you can afford to blow the money. I can't....others can't. These introductory turning sets have a place for beginners to get them going.

You lot all gotta remember too that many of you have been turning for MANY MANY years and some are professional turners You lot have years of knowledge and experience, have probably used dozens if not hundreds of types, style and brands of tools and know what you like. How would someone who hasn't turned a brass razzo know what they like if they haven't tried it out? I think a lot of woodworking as a hobby is a discovery journey, you try things out and experiment as you go. You learn what works, what doesn't work, what you like and what you don't like.

Gotta a couple of questions that I would love to get some responses on from all you blokes who have been turning for ages.

• when you first started turning, whether it was 5 years, 10 years or 30 years ago, what tools did you start with then?? Try to think hard to the very first time you were turning. When did you buy your first tools and what were they?
• when you first started turning way back when, could you sharpen tools like a pro straight out of the box? or did it take time to learn the art?
• did you get into turning as a hobby or for income?
• Last one, after more recommendations for buying tools with no handles, no one has answered my original question from last week: how does a beginner turn handles for his new handle-less turning tools when he doesn't have any tools to begin with?

Calm, thanks for taking the time to consider the set instead of just writing it off straight up. I agree with the skew & parting tool as I use them a lot. I also use the spindle gouge for basically what you said, fine detail work. The roughing gouge i use a lot too and I can get a good finish off it which requires minimal sanding. Yes the bowl gouge is a little small, but nevertheless, you CAN turn a complete bowl with it and it will get you started in bowl turning Bit curious about the scraper though mate....I have never had any other scrapers, so it's all I've used - I find it quite easy to use, never had a catch and does a good job when sharp.



Ken mate, I agree that poor quality tools promote unsafe use and lead to bad habits. Never said otherwise. Have you used this particular type of set I've been discussing Ken? I am not the only one who thinks these tools (which are manufactured and re-branded by numerous companies, not just Carbatec, I didn't even buy mine from Carbatec) are good entry level tools. I've read quite a few threads some time back, just did a quick search and here's some others:
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/set-tools-advice-47688
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/chisels-43992



Yes I'm sure that is true for most, good quality tools work the best. But as you mentioned in your first section, not everyone can afford them. Plus a Tormek still Mate you must be made of cash Jeff

When I first started turning I bought one of those cheap sets. Like all beginners I had trouble using and sharpening the tools. I went and got lessons, and found out that the tools werer holding me back. I then threw out all but the round nose scraper, I still use this scraper.
These starter sets have gotten poorer in quality over the years as most are now made in China. As I said before, I teach beginners on a weekly basis and most show up with cheap starter tools. After one lesson they throw most of them away. Where is the economy in that?
If a beginner buys one good 12mm bowl gouge, there are many things that can de made with just this one tool. Moor than enough to see if they like the hobby.
Ken.

Hi Calm,

I think you are getting stuck into me for no reason when I'm just having a discussion mate

Originally Posted by Calm

you said it yourself out of the set of 6 you only use or consider 3 of them as "use all the time" which means you bought 3 for "occasional use" the skew is a fatr better scraper than the scraper in that set.

I'm not sure when I said that, but in post #18 I said I use all 6 regularly.

Originally Posted by Calm

YOU are the one not listening or reading OUR posts - you keep coming back to this cheap set when there appears to be a majority of other members stating that that is not the best way to go

YOU have your head in the sand and think your opinion is the only one that maybe right. I suggest you take a good read of the other posts and think that maybe they might know.

This forum is about people giving their opinion so what makes you think your opinion is the only one thats right, you have no idea of the qualifications/experience of other posters just the same as we have no idea of yours. Jefferson (who is the biggest self confessed tool slut out) even said in his post that he realises not everyone can afford what he buys but he suggested a list (of single tools) and still recommended good quality tools. He is a newby that is experiencing the difficulties of learning and realises how much easier it is with the correct tools.

Yes I agree wholeheartedly, this forum is for discussing and giving of opinions. I have an opinion and you have an opinion and we are discussing it. I have never said once that it is wrong to go buy good quality more expensive tools have I? I have stated my reasons for my opinion, that is cost and a avenue of experiencing woodturning without outlaying a lot of money initially. I think it is a fair opinion and I know that there are others on the board who do understand it. I am the only one posting about, but hey, that's life. Since I started posting in this thread I have been the one shot down for having my opinion. That doesn't really seem like it's in the spirit of the board now does it mate?

Originally Posted by Calm

The reason i buy tools unhandles is it si cheaper and fun to make the handles to a shape that suits you - how to make them well i have seen tehm made with a unhandled roughing gouge or even go to a fellow member and i'm sure they would help or lend tools to get you started.

Thank you for answering this question about how to make handles for tools with no handled tools. I would buy unhandled tools too for the record...again never been against the norm, just trying to understand things and have a discussion.

One q that was raised: how to start turning with unhandled tools. One response somewhere was to use a bit of dowel. Think Bunnies have some pretty thick stuff. Drill a hole in the end and jam or epoxy the tang in.

Otherwise buy one handled tool (ah, but which?) and go from there.

FWIW I scored a set of Sorby carbon steel tools cheap when I started, and spent two months learning how to sharpen on a cheap GMC wet grinder. Set up a rest from an old drill stand and stood there hour after hour shaping slowly with one of Darlow's books beside me. (The trade off for money is usually time).

Originally Posted by KenW

When I first started turning I bought one of those cheap sets. Like all beginners I had trouble using and sharpening the tools. I went and got lessons, and found out that the tools werer holding me back. I then threw out all but the round nose scraper, I still use this scraper.
These starter sets have gotten poorer in quality over the years as most are now made in China. As I said before, I teach beginners on a weekly basis and most show up with cheap starter tools. After one lesson they throw most of them away. Where is the economy in that?
If a beginner buys one good 12mm bowl gouge, there are many things that can de made with just this one tool. Moor than enough to see if they like the hobby.
Ken.

Hi Ken,

I actually have two sets of 'cheap' tools. One that came with the second hand lathe I bought - it's got a price tag on it from the 90's of $19.95. they are rubbish tools and I don't use them at all - basically a throw away. But I didn't buy them, they were a freebie. I understand there are sets to throw away, I do mate. The second set which I have been discussing I've had luck with. Can sharpen it fine using a homemade jig and grinder, and it does good work for me. I will upgrade in time, with the advantage of my skills being much better when I get nice new good quality tools.

I was going to keep out of this but you raised some good points JLH that I felt compelled to reply.

Keep it impersonal people.

Originally Posted by jackliveshere

The difference being is how much you outlay as a brand new beginner without turning a thing and knowing what it's like and if you'll be good at it. If you have lots of disposable money, well that is fine, buy all the good quality tools you want, and if you throw the turning hobby away it won't matter as you can afford to blow the money. I can't....others can't. These introductory turning sets have a place for beginners to get them going.

You lot all gotta remember too that many of you have been turning for MANY MANY years and some are professional turners You lot have years of knowledge and experience, have probably used dozens if not hundreds of types, style and brands of tools and know what you like.
I agree with this statement and experiencing different tools, brands and shapes is a definite advantage.

You get to know what suits you best but there are still basic rules regarding tools and shapes that you can't get away from.

You have opened a sore point with me that if people stopped listening to the tool manufacturers and went back to the basic tools of 30 years ago their turning would in most cases improve and they would not need or want half the tools they have.

How would someone who hasn't turned a brass razzo know what they like if they haven't tried it out?

Join a club, read everything about your chosen hobby, join a club, gather with like minded people, join a club, look up everthing you can on the net, join a club, ask (as you have done here) and did I mention join a club.

The hard part is knowing whether or not the people showing you via the different methods actually know what they are talking about. I have seen some woeful and dangerous things in youtube that make my hair stand on end.

I think a lot of woodworking as a hobby is a discovery journey, you try things out and experiment as you go. You learn what works, what doesn't work, what you like and what you don't like.

You have got that right. It is the way we all learn and should grow. It is my hope that the people I have taught will become better turners than me.

Gotta a couple of questions that I would love to get some responses on from all you blokes who have been turning for ages.

• when you first started turning, whether it was 5 years, 10 years or 30 years ago, what tools did you start with then?? Try to think hard to the very first time you were turning. When did you buy your first tools and what were they?

I started turning about 35 years ago using a metal lathe. Tools were carbon steel if you could get them. My first roughing gouge and spindle gouges were made from car springs. My skew chisels were made from Bohlerit tool steel which I still use for the skews.

The only books were by Frank Pain and Gordon Stokes.

Then I met the bloke in the factory next door who built boats. He was a Pom that had migrated here and bought his lathe with him. A big, beautiful green solid cast iron Wadkin verandah post lathe. He taught me the finer points.

My first dedicated wood turning lathe was a wooden bed lathe that spun timber. It worked well but not as good as "Big Henry" that I have now.

• when you first started turning way back when, could you sharpen tools like a pro straight out of the box? or did it take time to learn the art?

I was lucky in the fact that as an apprentice mechanic we were required to learn how to sharpen drills and machining tools so it was no hassle to sharpen the tools but if you sre not subjected to using tools all day that a jig is almost essential to get a good edge.

• did you get into turning as a hobby or for income?

I started turning as a hobby but a forced career change saw me take it up as my living.

After having rooms stacked full of bowls and other craft items and running out of relations to give to I realised that if I were to make money I had to go back to what I had learnt from my mentor and do architectural or spindle turning.

• Last one, after more recommendations for buying tools with no handles, no one has answered my original question from last week: how does a beginner turn handles for his new handle-less turning tools when he doesn't have any tools to begin with?

As has been said earlier, use an unhandled tool to make the first handle and go from there.

I have used vise grips as a handle in a pinch.

I confess that I buy most tools with handles or knock the blade out of an old one as I am too lazy to turn my own.



Calm, thanks for taking the time to consider the set instead of just writing it off straight up. I agree with the skew & parting tool as I use them a lot. I also use the spindle gouge for basically what you said, fine detail work. The roughing gouge i use a lot too and I can get a good finish off it which requires minimal sanding. Yes the bowl gouge is a little small, but nevertheless, you CAN turn a complete bowl with it and it will get you started in bowl turning Bit curious about the scraper though mate....I have never had any other scrapers, so it's all I've used - I find it quite easy to use, never had a catch and does a good job when sharp.

The scrapers in those sets are usuallt too thin. They do work but if you get the chance to use a heavy one it is like getting out of a VW into a Ferrari.



Ken mate, I agree that poor quality tools promote unsafe use and lead to bad habits. Never said otherwise. Have you used this particular type of set I've been discussing Ken? I am not the only one who thinks these tools (which are manufactured and re-branded by numerous companies, not just Carbatec, I didn't even buy mine from Carbatec) are good entry level tools. I've read quite a few threads some time back, just did a quick search and here's some others:
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/set-tools-advice-47688
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/chisels-43992



Yes I'm sure that is true for most, good quality tools work the best. But as you mentioned in your first section, not everyone can afford them. Plus a Tormek still Mate you must be made of cash Jeff

Wiser heads will prevail here, but I'd like to share what happened with my son a few years back.

He was doing the woodworking stuff at school, Year 11 I think.

The "teacher" gave him blunt tools and hard timber to turn on a crap lathe.

He really struggled with it. So I bought him an el cheapo set of chisels that I didn't know how to sharpen and a Delta midi-lathe.

Needless to say, it didn't work out. Dan is now lost to woodturning for probably the best part of his life. His mind is elsewhere at the moment, age 21, but I'd wish the "system" had a or Ken W. there to get him going.

And yes, if I had to choose one tool, it would be a 12mm bowl gouge.....

Jeff

Originally Posted by jackliveshere

Yeah that is fair enough for REAL cheap sets. but if you have read my posts, the set I am talking about and is a good introductory set is HSS and holds an edge well.

I agree with carbon steel sets, but have never been talking about a carbon steel set.

I did read your post and still remain sceptical about the value of the set you mention. However, I have not used such a set so will take your word for its value.

One reason I elaborated so much in the post you quoted is simple. Threads such as this one are present forever and often become a valuable research thread for others. If my thoughts on the subject help someone else make a more informed decision then I think it has been a worthwhile use of my time. My post was directed more to the original post in the thread so that is one reason why it was not absolutely specific to your scenario.

In answer to other questions you posted , I first did wood turning in high school nearly 30 years ago and have no idea what sort of tools they were, but given the school and
the era, I have no doubt that they were carbon steel.

I didn't do any turning for at least another 10-15 years after that for one reason or another. When I got back into the hobby I bought P+N tools unhandled. It is a hobby to me and I have only ever given pieces away, never sold anything and I certainly have the full house to prove it!

To be honest I cannot remember how I turned the first few handles, but if I was to start over, I would do as another has suggested and just juryrig a length of large diametre dowel or curtain rod.

As for sharpening, I bumbled my way through like most, if not all others to start with and I simply fixed a length of flat board on an angle in front of the grinder to use as a tool rest. Still use it and it works for me. Did I make mistakes? Of course. Did I "waste" valuable steel? Never. If you learn something from a particular course of action then it can never be a waste or a mistake, it is only ever something that did not work out quite as well as hoped. Provided it does not result in casualties of course.

[Peers under bench.] Hello? Cubjo? It's safe to come out now.

I think.

He is in Melb somewhere Andrew.

I got my new TTS-100 Turning Tool Setter (thanks Jim Carroll for getting the gear to me so quickly).

I will sharpen the little gouge I'm donating to the Tassie Turner, just so he knows what sharp really is!

Off to the shed soon to get into it!

Jeff