Thread: Driveway surface

Originally Posted by silentC

You get the point

Ahh yes, I see where you're coming from, you don't want to delay the domino, just for a driveway!

Cheers,

P

Hi Silent,

I think using reo is a waste of time and money.
That is unless you are going to use dowels between each panel. Using dowels is a pain and if not set correctly will cause the concrete to crack anyway.

My two Bobs worth in order of economics


1.Gravel over crushed stone is good when done well but requires drainage to be addressed and some ongoing maintenance.

2.Sprayseal over crushed stone is exactly the same except the sprayseal will disapear quite quickly.

3.Asphalt is exactly the same but less maintenance (its will still crack and to do it well the subgrade and subbase preparation costs starts to make concrete more viable.

4.Concrete even on a minimal prepared base will last quite a long time and any cracking from lack of steel can be lived with unless you are close to trees.. even then roots will stuff it up.

5. Segmented paving bordered by white post and rail fences and a few horses running around in the manicured padocks if you really want to impress the neigbours.

Asphalt is pretty much out of the equation because based on the quotes I got (which are inclusive of prep work), for 14k asphalt I might as well spend a bit more on concrete.

Reo - well, yeah I suppose. It doesn't add that much to the cost though and I've got a couple of panels left over from the house slab. I didn't put any in the driveway up in Sydney.

Cracking - not really bothered about that because even if it does crack, it will still be sound to drive over and it wont wash away.

The neighbours across the road put down road base and the first time it rained they had a 1 foot wash out across it that made it impassable. She was parking out the front for weeks until they got it fixed.

Haven't got a quote on paving. I did a paving job of a similar size up in Sydney once. Big job but looks good. Hmm white fences you say? Will I need a fountain in the middle too?

My first thought was to use gravel. Drainage is an issue but a few sump drains here and there would take care of it. I suppose that would be the look I'd like most but not great for the kids on their skateboards.

Decisions, decisions...

Silent, sounds like you have made up your mind and leaning strongly in favour of concrete and I think it is the best taking it all round but are you seriously going to tackle it yourself? Must admit I wouldn't be game myself, but then again, maybe 20 years ago.
If I could afford it and had a drive that long to do. I would go the reinforced concrete.
Would be interesting to see a pic of the drive when its completed.

Not sure I've made up my mind but I would prefer concrete from the maintenance point of view.

Whether to do it myself or not - well, I'm not that concerned about it from the ability point of view, it's just the thought of all the work that gives me second thoughts. It certainly is nice to watch someone else doing the hard yakka. Paying someone to do the lot would chew up the budget that I've set aside for everything that needs to be done. It's a matter of what can be done with the resources on hand.

All great journeys start with the first step.

Take another leaf out of the book of concretors and do the pours first thing in the morning - if your all prepped so the concrete arrives before 7am you'll be finished it by somewhere near 10am for your first few then nearer 9am as you get better.

Ideally one person on the screed and two just making sure the mix is pretty level against leading face of the screed - one can do it but it's a lot easier with one each side of the screed guy - even kids can do this bit - it's fun for them.

Don't forget what I told you - smaller aggregate is a lot easier to push about and use plastic membrane makes it slide nicely too.

If your mini mix guy is decent he will move the feed along nicely with the pour and the amount you have to push about will be minimal.

For me I never bothered worrying over it a lot with a timber trowel - just worked back across it a few times with the screed from the side and then once it's set enough - light finish with a broom.

If I weren't so far away I would have helped you with the first three to get you going.

The plastic and the reo will also help avoid early plastic shrinkage cracking as the concrete sets - once the concrete has set and you have broom finished it you will do the concrete a favour if you decide to lay a weighted down sheet of plastic over the panel - the more moisture you retain the better the concrete will cure.

Biggest risk to big concrete pours we get involved in (up to 50 x 50m pours) is early plastic shrinkage cracking and it is at highest risk on windy days when the breeze dries out the concrete. If the concrete is allowed to set and has no cracks then the concrete itself develops a tensile strength capacity - if there is a crack then tensile capacity of concrete is zero (except what reo adds to the section) - so an uncracked slab is less likely to develop cracks in the future - many slabs have micro-cracks and under stress later in life (be it from load, sortening etc) will develop visible cracking.

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

EXCEPT the bit about doing it yourself.

Now that you are emotionally committed to concrete, lie down for a bit, and think about how sore you back will be.... it's a 100 metre long driveway for crying out loud!!

Think of how long it will take to finish Rory's cupboard in between physio sessions. THINK MAN, THINK!!

Crickey, you could easily spend that on xrays!

P

You make it sound like it has to be done in a weekend - a mere 2 panels a weekend would have it done in two months - 2 to 3 hours each morning and some prep work during the week (another hour max).

When I did my driveway I did a panel a night 3m x 3m over two and a half weeks - took 2 hours a panel - forming, mixing, pouring screeding and cleaning up - it's gotta be a lot easier when someone mixes it for you and puts it at your feet - no barrowing, no heaving up into a mixer.

100m or 500m - what does it matter if you pace yourself and not kill yourself. Just be smart in your approach start with lower expectations and build up - you'll probably get fitter - not cactus.

Teejay you sound like the "man" when it comes to pouring concrete now I have a question I hope you can help me with, I poured a slab 18 mtrs long by about 3 mtrs wide about 70 mm thick it runs parrallel with the front of my house) poured it in one hit! as I had to hire a concrete pump ( a very steep block) and did not want to hire it a second time the slab is up against a retaining wall on one side that runs the full width of the house,and the other is up against the house with an everhard plastic drain between that also runs the full length of the house,"I hope you get the picture" now I only put an expansion strip ( on a roll)across the front of the house (18 mtrs) hard up against the brickwork when I was pouring but I did not put any across ways as the drain was in the way then I would have to cut 2 strips one either side of the drain is it possible and I think I have seen it done using a concrete saw and cut the concrete in sections to aleviate any stress? If so do you cut the full thickness of the slab? or just half way? Any suggestions?

Originally Posted by patty

Teejay you sound like the "man" when it comes to pouring concrete now I have a question I hope you can help me with, I poured a slab 18 mtrs long by about 3 mtrs wide about 70 mm thick it runs parrallel with the front of my house) poured it in one hit! as I had to hire a concrete pump ( a very steep block) and did not want to hire it a second time the slab is up against a retaining wall on one side that runs the full width of the house,and the other is up against the house with an everhard plastic drain between that also runs the full length of the house,"I hope you get the picture" now I only put an expansion strip ( on a roll)across the front of the house (18 mtrs) hard up against the brickwork when I was pouring but I did not put any across ways as the drain was in the way then I would have to cut 2 strips one either side of the drain is it possible and I think I have seen it done using a concrete saw and cut the concrete in sections to aleviate any stress? If so do you cut the full thickness of the slab? or just half way? Any suggestions?

Yes Patty that is pretty straight forward to accept shortening of the slab the slab is cut (not full depth) and then as the slab shortens it develops a crack in the remaining bit of concrete - this is fine for slab shortening BUT it will not account for slab expansion. Slabs expand from thermal effects and to account for this you need a gap FULL DEPTH of the slab. If your area gets those 30-35 deg days and as you drive along a road have a look at all the long thin concrete panels in traffic islands how they have expanded such that they push against each other and lift up at the joints.

To make an expansion joint work it must be a gap - that is either you put compressible material in place before placing the concrete like ableflex OR you make the cut full depth then seal the top face with silicon type sealant to allow the gap to close and also to stop the gap filling with dirt and crap that will prevent the gap closing.

Your saw will only cut a gap a few millimetres wide - so you have two choices - make more cuts or make this cut wider and clean out the rubble - easier to do a few cuts - but your choice.

Originally Posted by TEEJAY

You hate it because you mixed it yourself - when you don't have to shovel lift it but just push it around a bit and the stuff you get from a ready mix place is easier, normally smoother than home made stuff it is a lot easier.

One really big tip I have found concrete 3 times easier to place if the aggregate is 10mm max rather than the 20mm stuff - it's like icing a cake.

A lot easier than hauling bushrocks

blah, should using a 14/10 mix for the stone anyway, if that is not their standard mix, ask for it )

Originally Posted by TEEJAY

Well I had a great long reply and it got lost when a message came up saying server too busy Try once more.

The way I would approach it:

Start with first pour in the middle of the driveway. Add to both ends of this so you can prepare two areas during the week and pour them both on the weekend either a few hours each morning or both on same day.

fine *if* the concrete truck can drive around this area for the next weekend of concreting
(don't want 10tonne of concrete truck driving over your still green concrete) (assume mini mix with about 2.2m3 on board)

Get edge formwork such that it is long enough to fit the mesh without the mesh needing trimming - eg if mesh 6m long then edgeboard 6.1m long minimum. Use 90 x 60mm laminated formwork edgeboards as they are rigid and will need minimal fixing and will hold shape and not bulge

I have always just used 90mm x 45mm pine, 450mm star stakes about 1m apart.

worst thing about concrete, working the surface too much, leads to powdery surface, only decent fix is to seal.

Originally Posted by silentC

How thick do ya reckon? The concretor says 100mm.

Just ran it by the missus and she actually thinks it's a good idea. Scarey...

100mm is fine unless you are going to be having some heavy trucks use the drive, personal preference is for 25mpa concrete, f72 (7mm) reo.

1m3 of concrete will do 12m2

fine *if* the concrete truck can drive around this area for the next weekend of concreting
(don't want 10tonne of concrete truck driving over your still green concrete) (assume mini mix with about 2.2m3 on board)

They would be using their big truck, because I'd be getting it in 3.6 metre lots. They charge a surcharge for <3 metres. Anyway, there's plenty of access and if I do it this way, I would start at the garage and work out to the street because it is a double entry drive, roughly the shape of a 'D', so they can back in from the street, dump half, then drive back out and back in the other drive to dump the second lot.

25 is what they quoted me on.

you could just pour 2 strips of concrete, get a load of pebbles from the Bairnsdale quary to between the strips, would look pretty good.

Make the strips about 1.2m wide, 600mm gap between them, that would give you a 3m wide drive, a whole lot easier screeding off 1.2m wide compared to 3m wide

The pebbels from the above quary are a light brownish colour