Thread: Basic home wiring

"To do it by yourself without any help and physical inspection by a trained sparkie is like doing your own surgery. "

I think doing your own surgery is a tad trickier!

I dont hear many people advocating a complete dissolution of the regs or licensing system, just more in line with most other western countries, that allow like for like replacement for the homeowner (not for the chippy to take on small electrical work!)

Current ones just say .. NO! Bit reminiscient of Nacy Reagan's version of drug education - "just say no!", doesnt work, hasnt worked, wont work - our electrocution rates are testament to that.

Yo do a replacement of what is already there implies that the wiring is already"checked out" by a sparkie. The DIYer will probably do a neat and safe replacement, often better than a trained sparkie. They will have enough nouse to kill any power before hand, probably the whole house. It's not a problem but I wouldn't adverise the fact that he has done it for obvious reasons.

What I object to is people who add new work without proper advice and a physical inspection. Someone decribing the procedure over the forum doesn't necessarily have the full picture.

Do what you feel is right but think of the consequences if you stuff up?

Originally Posted by Boban

What I find most annoying, and something I've noticed from the first day on the forums is that if a "familiar" forumite asks an electrical question, the approach seems to be somewhat different.

Disagree with you there. My answer to anyone would be the same. Don't do it, it's illegal, get a sparky.

It's not a grey area, it's cut and dried. Not a question of how hard it is or whether or not people have free will. You're not allowed to do your own wiring, that's the answer when someone asks one of these questions. You can whinge about it as much as you like but them's the facts.

Would also be interested to know the legal consequences for the forum if someone followed the advice posted and something went wrong or they got caught? Hopefully none, but...

our electrocution rates are testament to that

You haven't established that. I was flicking through that link and there seemed to be a lot of categories, including licensed persons, unlicensed persons, members of the public etc and overhead lines, network assets etc. When you can give us a stat that shows how many deaths occurred in homes from incorrectly wired points and lights, then you have something to argue with. At the moment, you just have a number that shows how many people died from electrocution for whatever reason. At the moment, your number would also include people who died from electrocution after touching an overhead wire, people who died installing electrical equipment on the job etc.

If anything, if there is a higher rate of electrocutions in Australia than the UK, it says that we aren't doing enough. And you are using this as an argument for deregulation that would open it up to anybody who wants to do their own wiring? It doesn't make sense to me.

The problem is, really, most of the stuff we might be tempted to do is pretty straightforward and with a logical, sober approach, the end result will be the same as if Edison himself came and did the wiring. You remove the fuse, make sure the circuit is dead three different ways and think about what you are doing.....

If you need to shift a sub main - don't. It starts to get tricky.
If you are putting a whole lot of points in the basement or the garage - there will be load issues and you better not. Even if you will only use one point at a time, houses get sold and the incoming buyer should expect to be able to use all the plugs if he wants to. The question seems to be where to draw the line... Frankly, the standard of wiring in new houses (here) is pretty micky mouse. Wires going all directions... diagonally across walls etc... You used to be able to drive a nail into a stud and be OK - now.... you'd never know. Me go now....

The question seems to be where to draw the line...

We don't get to draw it, it has been drawn for us

most of the stuff we might be tempted to do is pretty straightforward and with a logical, sober approach, the end result will be the same as if Edison himself came and did the wiring

See, I don't have the same faith in humanity that you do. I think that most of the people on here would be more than capable of what you are suggesting. There are a few that I would hold grave doubts about, but on the whole, most of us can use a computer and express ourselves clearly enough that you get the impression that wiring up a few points or a light or two would be well within our capabilities.

But, I have had the pleasure of experiencing all sorts of different people from all walks of life over the years, through work, friends, doing jobs in people's homes. I'm sorry, but some people just do not have the nous to wire a plug. Make that many. Maybe even most. No, that's going to far. Let's leave it at many.

Now, if we were to introduce a system like they have in the UK and the US, would you really want one of nature's beautiful people messing about with the wiring in a house you are about to buy from them? I know damn sure I wouldn't. Leave that alone, I would say.

OK, say you introduced a course that people could do to give them a qualification to do it themselves. Has anyone ever done an Owner Builder course? Do you think that a two day course gives you the skills and knowledge you need to build a house? Of course not. It is a rubber stamp to satisfy a legislative requirement that home owners undertaking blah blah blah blah.

No, I am not an optimist when it comes to relying on the common sense of humans or on the ability of governments to do things properly, or to see that they are done properly.

And just think Murray, if what I read in the SMH this morning comes to fruition, you could be a part of this great country too!

Originally Posted by bennylaird

Owner builders can always obtain a restricted license without the need for the full 4 years.

Benny,

I don't know if you have tried to obtain a restricted license - and I mean a linence that actually allows you to wire, not just disconnect and reconnect.

As a professional electrical engineer I can not obtain an "occupier's license" (which would allow me to do electrical work only on my own house) in Victoria without doing a four-year apprenticeship.

The regulations require that I sit an exam on the wiring rules (no problems) and do 80 hours supervised work (no problems). But to do the supervised work experience a whole heap of other rules have to be met and in the end it is actually easier to do a four-year apprenticeship.

I think the regulations are there to maintain a closed-shop but they are veiled as there for our safety.

Our department at Vic Uni used to teach the S License but I wasn't involved with it. Might see what that entails if it still exists? 30 years as a radio tech doesn't give me any right to go beyond a plug even though I work with Radars etc up around the 2 Megawatt range and have wriiten manuals etc for Loy Yang B power station.

Originally Posted by MurrayD99

...You remove the fuse, make sure the circuit is dead three different ways and think about what you are doing.....

The established three different ways is test on a known live source, test the diconection, test on a known live source again. Hands up haw many home handy persons have a decent enough multi meter to be safely playing with 240 and have the skills to safely test live circuits, knowing exactly what they are doing.

In Malaysia one of the RAAFies was working on his stereo in the room with his wife and 2 week old baby. He turned it off at the wall plug and took the cover off. Pick it up to move it and it contacted his chest and rendered his heart invalid as it took the full path of 240v pushing some substantial current through it.

Of course he should have unplugged it but the major cause was the fact that the active and neutral were reversed and only the active was switched, hence the neutral. Simple matter of swapping the two wire over.

I have seen many diyers who make the same mistake usually when they make extension leads. Just not enough basic knowledge.

I just plug my radio in and if it works, it's live, if it doesn't, it's dead...

I'll shut up now

Originally Posted by silentC

I just plug my radio in and if it works, it's live, if it doesn't, it's dead...

I'll shut up now

Hope your radio never develops a fault

Wonder how many do rely on the same sort of test though?
:confused: :eek: :eek:

Originally Posted by bennylaird

active and neutral were reversed

mixing up the active and neutral is always a problem in the forces

Ok, i will go find a spare friday thread to drivel in

See if you can find an old open one?