Thread: Box proportions

Hi Brian,

Wow, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So very generally......................

Have you heard of the "Golden Ratio?" It is a ratio of approximately 1:1.62. Objects with these proportions are viewed as attractive and well balanced. So, a box with a lid size of 30cm by 18.5cm looks "right". Of course, other factors such as the perspective from which the box is viewed must be taken into consideration. So, a box that is on a dressing table, viewed from above, would look good with a lid, with a proportion of 1:1.62 (30cm wide and 18.5cm deep for example). A box housed on a shelf, viewed from the front would look balanced with a front panel 30cm wide and 18.5cm high (again, for example). If one was to add a plinth or feet the height of the front panel could be reduced. You could grab a cereal box and make a mock up with the size you are hoping to make to see if it looks right to you.

Some boxes must be built to a size that fits their purpose. So a document box would have to have an inside dimension of a piece of A4 paper, for example. And a height of 10cm or 12.5cm. But one could make it shallower or deeper. I often make boxes according to the size of the timber I have available and have the Golden Ratio in mind as I'm thinking it out.

As to the thickness of timber. I like 5/8" (about 16mm) for a document box size. But again if my board is 30mm thick I might only get 12mm out of it once it has been re-sawn and planed to remove the bandsaw marks. One can always insert liners into the box if the sides appear too thin. Keep in mind the hardware (hinges, locks and handles) you may wish to use. Will the timber be thick enough to accommodate the hardware?

If the timber is too thick the lid will be too heavy when the box is open and may tip backwards. You may need box lid stays to support the lid and a heavy base. And the box will look chunky, when open (to my eye).

I hope this helps.

Paul

The above explanation from homesy is on the mark and in the ideal world is good to work too. Unfortunately the ideal world doesn't take into account timber stock sizes. If you can get your box timber sized and to the right length you are doing well but this will cost a lot more (commercially unviable) than buying rough sawn and machining yourself.
I am always having to buy what i can get hold of to satisfy my need for exotic, rare or hard to find timbers and this is where the "golden Rule" has to be forsaken in favour of optimal recovery.
Its not a big deal but it can lead to some unusually sized boxes and different ways of fitting them out.

Using the golden ratio is 'safe', i.e. boxes in that proportion will usually look OK, but don't be afraid to use different proportions. Look at other peoples' boxes and see which ones you like & dislike.
As far as wall thickness goes, IMHO the thinner the better within reason. For an A4 document box, I'd usually look at 10mm, maybe 12mm for a larger box, say 40 x 30 size. Smaller boxes, probably 8-10mm. It's all down to personal preference though.

Thanks Guys,
Once I get my head around your explanation Homesy135, I'm sure I'll be well on my way. Had a look at the gallery on your site Alexs - beautiful work, something to aspire to. I do have a planer/thicknesser so I have control over the thickness of my stock. I can see now that the boxes I've made so far are way too thick. Also I need to get some good quality hinges & hardware.
Once I produce something I consider acceptable, I'll post some pics.

Thanks again.

Thickness is a matter of conjecture and as you move into box making you will soon get a feel for what looks and works well. The majority of boxes i make are 12-13mm, this is mainly because i don't see the point in making dust and shavings for the sake of 1-2mm. My general rule is, but not always adhered to,

8mm for combined sides up to 600mm
11-12mm for combined sides 600-800mm
13mm+ above 800mm

Luckyb,

All good advice in the posts above.

If you’re just starting in boxmaking there are lots of YouTube videos. Try a search on ‘make jewellery box’ or ‘keepsake box’.

It’s well worth picking up a book on boxmaking from the local library or buy one online. U.S. boxmaker Doug Stowe has several well-illustrated books on boxmaking that are good intros to the subject.

Happy boxmaking!

Brian

Hi Luckyb, This is my spreadsheet I created for the Golden Ratio. I do try and use it as much as possible

Only change Cell C1, the rest will automatically change.

Paul

Originally Posted by Pauls321

Hi Luckyb, This is my spreadsheet I created for the Golden Ratio. I do try and use it as much as possible

Only change Cell C1, the rest will automatically change.

Paul

I created one very similar, but i also did a variant where you put in the width and it calculates the others, just to see. Height, I generally am dictated to by the style of joint. i am limited to 75mm height for Mitered corners, (saw height - sled base thickness) but not so with Butt joints, or finger joints. IMHO the height can be anything. and if you'd like i'll post pics of 3 different boxes which are roughly the golden ratio on length and width but well off on height and yet all (to me) are pleasing to the eye.

Fumbler, you don't want to limit yourself on box height. If you have a tilting blade you should make a sled for the blade to cut at 45 then you can cut any heights you need.

Originally Posted by Pauls321

Hi Luckyb, This is my spreadsheet I created for the Golden Ratio. I do try and use it as much as possible

Only change Cell C1, the rest will automatically change.

Paul

Thanks Paul,
Simple but functional. I'll use this to get me going.

Brian.

Originally Posted by double.d

Fumbler, you don't want to limit yourself on box height. If you have a tilting blade you should make a sled for the blade to cut at 45 then you can cut any heights you need.

I haven’t had much success using it that way, but will give it another go. Your testing me now aren’t you? Hahaha

here are the 3 pics

FF428226-B73D-48D2-89E7-698EDC4589D3.jpg

EA70A650-703F-45FF-86D9-51DB7B20D37F.jpg

0B6C4BAA-B4F0-4DB9-BB28-A337ABF8A476.jpg

All 3 are close to the ratio in length and width but are 40-50mm under ratio height.
There are 2 other pics that I couldn’t delete so ignore them as they are a lot closer to correct height.

I really like the slimline boxes, Richard.

If you’re having challenges with cutting mitres accurately this might be worth a try. I cut the mitres with any saw but then finish off on this jig:

60E4AC02-C65E-456F-9222-BCCD86321EC7.jpeg

The sander has a 300mm disc and the wall of the jig is approximately 100mm high. It gives a super crisp mitre for pieces as tall as 120mm and as small as tray sides (shown here). It works so well it almost feels like cheating

Best regards,

Brian

I can’t imagine you would take any form of short cut Brian, your work is much too fine for corner cutting (if u pardon the pun).

If you're using a jig like Homey's, here's a tip to make it even easier:
Make the fence so that the wood sits on the outside of it, i.e towards you rather than towards the sander.
When setting up, make sure the horizontal table on the sander is perpendicular to the disc face.
Get the mitre angle exact by setting the fence & clamping, then mitre two pieces of scrap and check that when you put them together they make a right angle. Adjust the fence until they do.
Mark out the mitres using a marking knife. Don't cut too deeply.
As you sand down to the line on the outside of the mitre, watch the line. When you get to it, you will see a small feather of wood appear. You have now mitred the end at the correct length.