Thread: Design of this box lid?

Hi Jill, One way the for inlay would be to route out the grove using a jig. It looks like a couple of thin strips of brass either side of a darker piece of wood. the ends would be run over a small (2 or 3 mm) round over bit. The lid to me looks as though it has miters on the corners hence the spline. If you wanted to make the lid from a solid piece of timber once again make up a template and use a set of skies and a bowl bit to rout out the middle.

Regards
Harold

Hi Jill,
Is that one of Gene Treanor's boxes? Sure looks like it. The box lid would be a mitred frame with a rebate in the top to accept a piece of veneered ply or mdf. Buy an off the shelf inlay if you want to do an inlay too. The marbled paper is available from here that's where Gene gets it from too.

Cheers
Michael

Yes Michael, I didn't know it was an Aussie built box. I just did a Google search for images for Jewellery Boxes and this was one of the images that popped up, so I went into that website.

I recall the web site referred to a Gene, didn't see the surname - I was just looking at the pics, looking for ideas for a nice box to make as a gift, and this one caught my eye as I have some jarrah that I want to use on something special.

I still can't see how he did the outside of the lid - there is no evidence on the top of a recess to take some jarrah veneered ply.

I am new to boxes, and I am impressed that someone could be identified from the box they make - amazing. Will look up some more of his work

I think I'd seen it before, but the marbled paper and Jarrah gave it away. If you blow up the image of the lid you can just make out the line of the veneer along the chamfer, so I'd say that the veneer overlays any rebate that's there too. If it's done that way, I suspect he'd put the ply in first and then veneer the whole top. Of course I may well be wrong!

Originally Posted by JillB

Yes Michael, I didn't know it was an Aussie built box. I just did a Google search for images for Jewellery Boxes and this was one of the images that popped up, so I went into that website.

I recall the web site referred to a Gene, didn't see the surname - I was just looking at the pics, looking for ideas for a nice box to make as a gift, and this one caught my eye as I have some jarrah that I want to use on something special.

I still can't see how he did the outside of the lid - there is no evidence on the top of a recess to take some jarrah veneered ply.

I am new to boxes, and I am impressed that someone could be identified from the box they make - amazing. Will look up some more of his work

I'd say Mic has it right - veneer on a ply substrate. I think the edges of the lid panel are mitred on the underside, and there would be a mitre on the inside of the frame. The chamfer on the outside of the lid would disguise where the two meet. To pull it off as he has done requires precise joinery, and I suspect the final fitting would be done by planing off a shaving at a time. It's a really nice box with great attention to detail.

You wouldn't use a solid panel on this lid, as there's no allowance for differential expansion.

Thanks Mic and Alex, interesting that such a thing of simple beauty involves such fine attention to detail.

Alex, from my point of view as one very inexperienced box maker, rather than having mitre joins on the edges of the lid, do you think he may have just rebated the inside edge of the lid frame, inserted the ply substrate, and then put veneer over the top of the whole thing, then trimmed and bevelled around the outer edges?

Like your point about not having a solid timber lid because of timber expansion.

Nice to see the finer details of true craftsmen such as aligning the screw slots

Originally Posted by JillB

Thanks Mic and Alex, interesting that such a thing of simple beauty involves such fine attention to detail.

Alex, from my point of view as one very inexperienced box maker, rather than having mitre joins on the edges of the lid, do you think he may have just rebated the inside edge of the lid frame, inserted the ply substrate, and then put veneer over the top of the whole thing, then trimmed and bevelled around the outer edges?

Jill
the way I'd make that frame is to attach solid Jarrah edging to a piece of 6 or 9mm mm MDF. I'd use mitred corners on the edging, being careful to get the mitred corners to exactly align with the corners of the MDF

I'd then veneer the top of the box using sawn veneer rather than the really thin sliced stuff
I'd place a balancing piece of veneer on the inside which doesn't need to be a precise fit, because the paper liner will hide any gap.

as I think it was Alex said, attention to detail hides the construction technique

the inlay would be cut in after the lid was veneered.

the box lid could be done with rebates on the frame, but the result would IMO look a bit odd as you would have end grain showing where the original box only has face grain

I don't understand what you mean Ian. Could you provide a diagram?
If you make an mdf top inside a mitred frame, you've got the same thing as the rebated frame without the rebates and if you then veneer the top, with a thick veneer, I don't understand how this will hide the end grain.

I think Alex has got it where the veneered panel with underside mitred fits into a mitred rebate.

Originally Posted by ian

Jill
the way I'd make that frame is to attach solid Jarrah edging to a piece of 6 or 9mm mm MDF. I'd use mitred corners on the edging, being careful to get the mitred corners to exactly align with the corners of the MDF

I'd then veneer the top of the box using sawn veneer rather than the really thin sliced stuff
I'd place a balancing piece of veneer on the inside which doesn't need to be a precise fit, because the paper liner will hide any gap.

as I think it was Alex said, attention to detail hides the construction technique

the inlay would be cut in after the lid was veneered.

the box lid could be done with rebates on the frame, but the result would IMO look a bit odd as you would have end grain showing where the original box only has face grain

I am afraid that I am confused, so I was drawing out a lid design last night, showing what I think AlexS was saying, and what I thought might be an alternative way of doing it, not having the skills required to do it the first way.

Can anyone please tell me if my interpretation of AlexS' comment is correct, and the problems with doing it my method?

Hi Jill,
Your interpretation of Alex's description matches mine. Your last diagram is how I thought it may have been done because when you blow the close-up image way up, there does seem to be a thin glue line on both the edge and end grain sides of the veneer.

many thanks mic-d, I feel a lot less confused now - another case of a pic worth a 1,000 words

Hi Jill

I think my first comment was be a bit misleading

attached is the two ways I'd approach the lid

Method 1 doesn't require really precise joinery, because
a) the lippings are brought flush with the MDF before the veneer is applied
b) the veneer then hides the join between the MDF and Jarrah
c) the MDF provides rigidity to the mitres so you don't need to reinforce the corners with splines
d) veneer is placed after the top is cut from the box



Method 2 I now think matches how the box was constructed
a) the mitred frame is rebated to take a MDF panel
b) the frame is reinforced with mitres
c) the MDF panel is inserted as the box is glued up
d) the lid is cut from the box, the fame is then brought flush with the MDF
e) the lid is then veneered

The joinery needs to be reasonably precise, but not to scapel cut precision

In particular the MDF panel doesn't need to be mitred on its underside to sit inside the lid frame.



Method 2, lends itself, I think, to batch construction.
You could make up spline reinforced box about 600 high and once the glue was dry, slice 4 or 5 jewelery boxes from it.
each box would be fitted with a top and bottom panel

Hi Jill,
and method 2 from the last reply is the way I first envisaged it.