Thread: How to ebonise box sides

Hi ian, thanks for this suggestion, it is certainly a beautiful design, and would be great with jarrah and marri timbers.

At this stage, I am going for the simpler design

Originally Posted by JillB

Alex, is your 2nd sentence correct? Should it be " if you don't use shellac over it......" ?

No, it's correct as written. Because they are both soluble in metholated spirits, the shellac picks up the stain. It can be done, with care, but if you're wiping on the shellac you may find that you have see-through patches in the stain.

Originally Posted by AlexS

I have a jar of Liquid Nightmare brewing, so I'll try them both. Seems to depend a bit on the timber you're working with.

Hi Alex, I have read I could find about the Liquid Nightmare , and am now confused. Mind you, the first I ever heard of ebonising was last night when I read the Woodsmith article. Pity I don't have AWR #64. Can't find it online anywhere.

Some advise creating a rusty mess of steel wool and saltwater and a dash of vinegar, leaving it to totally rust in an open bucket, then adding it to lots of vinegar, straining it and then applying almost immediately to the workpiece

Others recommend putting the steel wool and nails in a bottle of vinegar, leaving for about a week or more, straining it and then applying to the workpiece.

Alex, what is your preferred method, and what sort of quantities are we talking about? How much steel wool, and how much vinegar?

All makers of this brew recommend washing the steel wool first, and one even gives a very strong recommendation for apple cider vinegar as giving the best brew. I know our local IGA store stocks it, so will give it a go.

All users advise that the best results come with timber with high tannin levels, like Oak. I think my merbau / kwila is in that category too.

I found this interesting website advising on timbers with high tannin levels. Here is an extract:


Hardwoods with a High Tannin Content

Most imported Malaysian / Indonesian / New Guinea Hardwood timbers, Merbau, Kwila, Kapur, Belian, Balau, Kempas & some Australian timbers have a high content of Tannin, this becomes a problem when the timber is exposed to moisture. The tannin can leach out causing staining not only on your timber but also on any surrounding surfaces i.e. concrete, painted surfaces, tiles etc. A good example of this can be seen in the photo.

Timbers which have a relatively high tannin content are also prone to discolouration with black stains when it comes in contact with iron compounds i.e. iron filings, ferrous nails & screws. Cement dust & soil high in iron can also leave black spots if particles fall on these timbers when wet. Tannin stains are not only unsightly but can also clog the pore structure of the timber - preventing oil from penetrating evenly, not only causing it to remain tacky but also in some cases giving an overall dull / patchy appearance.

Hi Jill,

In Aust. Woodsmith No 15 there is an ebonised box not unlike the style of that box you pictured. They used a black waterbased aniline dye which I guess was nigrosine. They used American walnut, primarily because it is just a rehashed American article. Any dark timber would be OK, even kwila, but if you want a glossy mirror finish like in your picture it would be better to start with a close grain timber.

Although Japan black is no longer made, you might still find a can on a shelf somewhere. You can make an effective mimic for black Japan with the following prooftint mix. 1 part black, 2 parts walnut, 2 parts teak brown. That recipe is from FW.

Thanks for this information mic_d.

how would Wattyl Teak Oil (Manufacturer's data sheet attached) and then Ubeaut Traditional Wax go over waterbased aniline dye? I had a great success with this finish on a silky oak mirror frame recently.

I can also get aniline dye from The Wood Works which is turpentine soluble, and one which is spirits soluble. Not sure which way to go

I'm a beginner with liquid nightmare, so you probably know more than I do. I just put some steel wool in vinegar - didn't wash it, no rusty nails, so don't know how it'll go. I might try washing the steel wool and putting it in salty water first, & see how that goes.
I found that even straight vinegar on kauri darkened it, and condy's made it a quite nice light brown.

Originally Posted by JillB

Thanks for this information mic_d.

how would Wattyl Teak Oil (Manufacturer's data sheet attached) and then Ubeaut Traditional Wax go over waterbased aniline dye? I had a great success with this finish on a silky oak mirror frame recently.

I can also get aniline dye from The Wood Works which is turpentine soluble, and one which is spirits soluble. Not sure which way to go

The Wattyl product and wax should be fine over water-based aniline dye since they use immiscible solvents so the finish will not redissolve and pull the dye. If you use water-based dye you should raise the grain and sand before using it, otherwise it will raise the grain. You can get water-based aniline dye here.

Thanks for this information, mic-d, I am learning lots. With the water soluble aniline dye powder on the Wood Works site, would you have any idea about what sort of concentration would you use in a litre of water, so I know how much to order?

AlexS, we are all learning here. Hopefully we will have something definitive to tell other Forumites once we get a good ebonising result

Originally Posted by JillB

Thanks for this information, mic-d, I am learning lots. With the water soluble aniline dye powder on the Wood Works site, would you have any idea about what sort of concentration would you use in a litre of water, so I know how much to order?

AlexS, we are all learning here. Hopefully we will have something definitive to tell other Forumites once we get a good ebonising result

You better talk to them about that, but if you just want to make a few boxes 100g would be plenty. A video demo of liquid nightmare here and the other name vinegaroon.

Originally Posted by JillB

Pity I don't have AWR #64. Can't find it online anywhere.

Hi Jill

I have a copy of AWR #64
Would you like me to copy the ebonising article for you?

Originally Posted by AlexS

I'm a beginner with liquid nightmare, so you probably know more than I do. I just put some steel wool in vinegar - didn't wash it, no rusty nails, so don't know how it'll go. I might try washing the steel wool and putting it in salty water first, & see how that goes.
I found that even straight vinegar on kauri darkened it, and condy's made it a quite nice light brown.

washing with salty water shouldn't be necessary

Vinegar is an acid (acetic from memory) so will attack steel
salty water is a source of chlorine ions which are also found in hydrochloric acid -- again, from memory, it's the chlorine ions that do the damage, not the hydrogen ions BUT it's been nearly 40 years since I last studied chemistry so I could easily be wrong

hi Jill, if you are looking for a good reference on the properties of Australian timbers, have a look at this website here .

Just reading generally, the ones I have been able to find with high tannin content are:

Blackbutt
Tallow wood
Cypress Pine
Brush Box
Teak ( not sure if that is an Australian grown timber)

Hi all, here is a list of some web sites on ebonising process. You will notice I have kept the best till last:

Ebonizing Wood - Popular Woodworking Magazine
Ebonising wood
Ebonising
best way to ebonise wood? - Design Addict Forum
Ebonizing Rust Stain
How Do You Ebonize Wood...
Australian Woodarts Bulletin Board
OldTools Archive -- thread with message 224668
Ebonizing maple?
Tannic Acid in Wood Finishing
Ebonizing Wood - Scroll Saw Woodworking & Crafts Message Board
Ebonizing Wood
Ebonizing Wood : Projects
Ebonising Basics