Thread: How to ebonise box sides

Many thanks for this article ian. Interesting conclusion out of the blue in the 2nd last para - he recommends India ink, so you can see the wood grain best !!

also, the stain penetrates so you don't sand it off and because it doesn't raise the grain


Just remember that all your ebonising needs to be completed BEFORE yoy attach the ebonised sides to the Jarrah



as to my other suggestion, I wasn't trying to sway your design, just present the option of using a white timber with the Jarrah -- similar to the walnut / Maple combo favoured in North America

hi, I have been following this thread with great interest, and decided to do some testing myself, so have ordered some India Ink on eBay and started making a batch of Liquid Nightmare. I also ordered some water soluble aniline dye from the Wood Works - Mike Jefferys was very helpful.

I bought some coarse steel wool from our local TruValue hardware store ( $1.50) , shredded it, washed it in hot water and detergent, then washed in warm water to clean it. I put this in about 500ml of Apple Cider vinegar from the local IGA store ( $2.90 for 750ml) and waited.

During the first 18 hours nothing happened. The steel wool just floated on top of the vinegar, and you could see through the vinegar, no discolouration. So I got some rusty nails, a small but very rusty 12mm diam rod, some nice big clean 4 inch nails and put them on top and added some more vinegar. The lot sunk to the bottom as expected. Overnight the brew turned dark as....

The pics below were taken nearly 48 hours after the steel wool was added. It is still actively gassing. Will leave it for a week and see what happens.

At the moment, from reading all the links above, I am inclined towards the India Ink solution, coated by Ubeaut de-waxed White shellac or Wattyl Scandinavian Teak Oil, then cut with EEE Ultra shine and polished with Traditional Wax - should be able to see the grain nicely. Not sure if the ebonising liquid nightmare below will enable the grain to be seen. The test results on some tannin rich kwila will show over the next couple of weeks.

My second preference, alluded to by AlexS above, is the liquid nightmare followed by a Prooftint Black waterbased dye, or aniline water based dye - if that won't turn it a deep jet black, nothing will.

Interesting that the Ubeaut web site says to add a drop of brilliant red dye to the black dye to get a really deep black colour


Brew_1.JPGBrew_2.JPGBrew_3.JPG

Hi Jill, my apologies for hijacking this thread. Should I start a new one? I thought I might add to its value by adding my experiences with Liquid Nightmare

After 9 days I decided to decant the Liquid Nightmare, firstly through a $7 funnel with metal strainer from AutoBarn, and then again through a nylon stocking.

Interesting that the nails and steel rod that were left were very bright and shiny (Pic 3), and there was still some un-dissolved steel wool, almost unrecognisable. Very little muck on the metal strainer on the initial pour out (Pic 2)

As usual, I did spill some , and it spilled on a piece of pine that I was using to hold down the papers. Photo of timber taken about an hour after the spill (Pic 4)

Next trick is to cut up some kwila and try out various tests, including India Ink, when it arrives.

Have decided not to use carcinogenic aniline dye powder - too risky

Brew_00.JPG
Pic 1 above - brew after 9 days

Brew_01.JPGBrew_04.JPG
Pic 2 after straining -metal filter in funnel, first pour
Pic 3 rusty nails all clean in bottom of jar

Brew_06.JPG
Pic showing result of spillage on pine offcut
Oil coated kwila on the left, for comparison.

hi Dengy, go for it ! The more you can share with us, the better off we all will be. Interesting how dark the initial coating was on pine. Wonder how dark it would have been if the pine was initially coated with a strong brew of tea ( tannic acid), and then coated with your Liquid Nightmare.

The India Ink sounds interesting too

thanks Jill, will keep going.

After the initial spill on to the scrap pine, I waited an hour and then covered it with a second coat of ebonising liquid, as well as making a single coated area on the same scrap for comparison.

The pics show the results 4 hours later. The key points are:
1. they both turned a dairy milk chocolate colour, one slightly darker than the other
2. there was no penetration into the wood work, even after 2 coats
3. The surface coating was quite soft and damp, as shown by my finger marks on the single coated area


EB_01.jpg
Pic 1 was taken 1 hour after the initial staining

EB_02.jpg
Pic 2 above shows pine with 1 coat (LHS) and 2 coats (RHS)
against oil stained kwila


EB_04.jpg
Pic 3 above shows the finger prints on the single
coated area, 4 hours after painting

EB_03.jpg
Pic 4 shows virtually zero penetration
of the ebonising process

Originally Posted by Dengue

Pic 4 shows virtually zero penetration
of the ebonising process

That's because there was no ebonising process. Pine will not ebonise due to the lack of tannic acid. The colour you're seeing is just the rust in the mixture, with zero penetration, of course.

there was no ebonising process

ahhhh....

Well that explains that! Many thanks Humphrey

Originally Posted by Dengue

ahhhh....

Well that explains that! Many thanks Humphrey

My point was why waste your time doing trials and posting results on a timber that you know won't ebonise?

Hi Humphrey, you will see from my previous posts that I originally intended to test tannin rich kwila, but I did the test with the pine because the ebonising liquid spilt on the scrap pine while I was decanting it, so I thought why waste the opportunity - no big deal, only took a couple of minutes, and thanks to your comments on the ebonising process, a valuable lesson was learnt. ( I actually thought I was on to something with that beautuiful brown colour, he he he )

Remember that pine bark is particularly high in tannin level, I was hoping some of it may have transferred to the wood. Doesn't look like it does, eh?

Next step is to coat another bit of scrap with tea, then re-do the two coats when it dries. After that I intended following the advice of the maestro and trying Condy's Crystals to see what happens there - it is all good fun, and we will learn things

On the uBeaut website, Neil encourages us to experiment to learn about timber colouring, and this is what I am doing, and sharing the knowledge , or lack of it, as the case may be

Originally Posted by Dengue

Hi Humphrey, you will see from my previous posts that I originally intended to test tannin rich kwila, but I did the test with the pine because the ebonising liquid spilt on the scrap pine while I was decanting it, so I thought why waste the opportunity - no big deal, only took a couple of minutes, and thanks to your comments on the ebonising process, a valuable lesson was learnt. ( I actually thought I was on to something with that beautuiful brown colour, he he he )

Remember that pine bark is particularly high in tannin level, I was hoping some of it may have transferred to the wood. Doesn't look like it does, eh?

Next step is to coat another bit of scrap with tea, then re-do the two coats when it dries. After that I intended following the advice of the maestro and trying Condy's Crystals to see what happens there - it is all good fun, and we will learn things

On the uBeaut website, Neil encourages us to experiment to learn about timber colouring, and this is what I am doing, and sharing the knowledge , or lack of it, as the case may be

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so critical.

I'm experimenting too - bought some Condy's crystals on Wednesday to test when I get a chance. Looks a nice brown when moistened and wiped onto paper, but that's as far as I've got. (Starts out purple, then oxidises to brown within seconds.)

Also gave the UBeaut Green/Black water-based dye a go, but as labelled, it's green/black - too green for this purpose. Possibly the CC and Green/Black together.

I also bought some Dylon Velvet Black fabric dye, to see what happens on lighter timbers that won't ebonise. Might be a waste of time, but nothing ventured nothing gained.

My best results so far on Oz timbers with iron/acid ebonising have been on a couple of types of Eucalypt - nice deep black once the finish goes on and deep penetration ~ 0.25mm, enough for a good amount of sanding after ebonising.
Don't throw the fluid away after ebonising, either. It can be re-used a good few times without any loss of black 'depth'.

I bought some tannic acid today, for pre-treating timbers that wouldn't normally ebonise. It should allow any timber to be ebonised with iron/acid to a nice, deep black, in theory.

The source: Tannic Acid 25g


I used to do a fair bit of leatherwork years ago, too, and used Raven Oil to dye leather black, so I ordered some of that yesterday as well, to test.

Good on you , Humphrey, thanks for sharing this and your previous information. I had never heard of tannic acid powder, nor the Raven Oil. Is the tannic acid water soluble?

Sounds like you might be on to something. Be great if you come up with something that will make ebonising easy and give consistent results

Originally Posted by Dengue

I had never heard of tannic acid powder, nor the Raven Oil. Is the tannic acid water soluble?

Yes, it is (very) soluble and will dissolve in about 1/3 of it's weight in water. Commonly used as a clarifier during beer and wine making, among other things.

Raven oil produces a deep black on leather, so might do the same on timber, but I'm more looking forward to trying the tannic acid/vinegar/steel wool when the acid arrives. I bought 100g to test.

Sounds like you might be on to something. Be great if you come up with something that will make ebonising easy and give consistent results

A little more info:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Commercial tannic acid is usually extracted from any of the following plant parts: Tara pods (Caesalpinia spinosa), gallnuts from Rhus semialata or Quercus infectoria or Sicilian Sumac leaves (Rhus coriaria).

Sometimes extracts from chestnut or oak wood are also described as tannic acid but this is an incorrect use of the term. It is a yellow to light brown amorphous powder which is highly soluble in water; one gram dissolves in 0.35 mL of water.

While 'tannic acid' is a specific type of 'tannin' (plant polyphenol), the two terms are sometimes (incorrectly) used interchangeably. The long standing misuse of the terms, and its inclusion in scholarly articles has compounded the confusion. This is particularly widespread in relation to green tea and black tea, both of which contain tannin but not tannic acid.

And a little more here: Black Dye