Thread: hello all

Welcome, Android. You have found the right site as far as wooden box making goes. There are so many knowledgeable and friendly supportive people here that I am still amazed by the woodwork I see and the constructive friendly advice shared freely. It sounds to me like you have quite a good head start already with the tools you have. A bandsaw? That has been on my wish list for a long time...

You have a few questions, I'll take a stab at one of them, though I look forward to seeing others opinions as well. To hand cut or machine cut?

That is such a simple question, though no simple answer will do it justice: there are very deeply held feelings supporting both camps. For many, as I understand it, the frustrations of the learning curve of hand cutting joinery detracts from the joy of woodworking. Personally, I use machines to dimension my wood to size then do all of my joinery, dovetails and such, by hand, because, for me, the challange of doing it by hand is a great part of the joy of woodworking. No matter which methods a craftsman chooses to get there. I'm sure we can all agree on the joy and pride of a personally completed project.

I don't have any dovetail jigs yet, but hope to get a good one in the future. Then, based on time constraints and how many of a particular piece I need to do in what amount of time, drawers for example (a single box or cabnets worth at my own pace, or an apartment's worth on a tight schedule) I'll decide whether to do the joinery by hand or by machine. Either way, as you can see here by browsing the posts, some very beautiful unique woodwork is produced, both by hand and machined jigs. Anyone who is willing to put thier heart and soul into it can produce amazing work It's not the tool, its the craftman behind it and the way he practices his craft (or she, her craft ).

I look forward to seeing your first box, and would love to see some of your earlier turned pieces as well.

Welcome!

Welcome to the forum! I live over in Council Bluffs... 1 Iowa boys on a Ozzie woodwork forum ..lol. I don't know how you live without a tablesaw, many do but a mitersaw will work for your cross cutting with a good blade. Hand made dovetails... I wish I knew how and have never tried, someday I hope to. For now I use my Gifkin dovetail jig which is made to use on the router table by Austrailian box making great Roger Gifkin. It's a slick jig and can be bought in the US. It ain't cheap but it works great and is pretty much a box making jig .. even though you can make some larger case work and drawers with it. I also use the Oak Park box joint jig ( The Router Workshop ) It's a very simple but easy to use jig and pretty affordable. I buy most of my wood either at Menards ( 1/2 oak and aspen) or all my other thin hardwood only already dimensioned. I do not have a jointer or a planer so I don't have much choice.
Welcome to the forums, how you enjoy it!

Corey

Android,

With a well tuned bandsaw, SMCS and router you should have enough to have planty of fun. Generally most people on this forum would buy their seasoned wood from the lumber yard and probably either machine joint and plane it or do what they can it by hand.

The bandsaw is pretty versatile - have you seen the bandsaw DVD by Mark Duginske?

As other have said the Gifkins is a great jig - I bought one early and it had me doing perfect dovetails no problem - again it is a bit expensive but you pay for the ease of use and set-up compared to some other jigs around. You don't have to go for dovetail style though..plenty of ideas out there, and in here.

Dunno why VB is not sold over there gotta be better than that Bud!

how odd it is that we've two iowans here... funny stuff. i should clarify that i will be in iowa in less than a week, i was born and raised there (ames), moved to colorado for 10 years and now i'm moving back to ames. my brother actually lives right next door to you in omaha.

my tablesaw was a danger to anyone in my shop and with the move i had to downsize my shop a little, so the table saw didn't make the cut (no pun intended). or the incomplete cabinet i built for it! my band saw isn't the world's greatest, but i think with a proper tune-up, it could be doing some good things for me. but i do have a little router table and decent router, so hopefully that'll help me. and a nice miter saw. it's way bigger than what i need it for, but that's what having tools is all about, right?

thanks for everyone's comments.

another question:

i'm sure there's various ways to attach the bottom of a box, but i'm wondering how many of you cut a little slot (dado?) to fit in a bottom or if you just glue it to the bottom of the frame (carcase?)...

All of my boxes I have made to date have a 1/8 slot and 1/8 panel in the bottom. Usually hardboard cause I put liners in most boxes. Plywood works well and so does regular hardwood. If it is mitered corner box I use the full kerf blade to make the slot as it won't show with miters on the corners. If it is dovetailed or box joints I use the router table as the slots can't go all the way thru on both pieces or it shows when the box is assembled. Good luck with your move! When you get to Ames... make a run to Des Moines and check out The Woodsmith Store run and owned by the Woodsmith Magazine. Cool store and they have some great seminars there as well.

Corey

Welcome, Android.

Welcome Android. I make mine the same way a Boxinator, but as I use solid timber for the bottom, I don't glue it, except for a dot at the middle of each end. This lets the wood expand & contract without splitting.

I definitely don't consider myself a box-maker, not after seeing the work of some of the "masters" on these forums anyway. But I have made one or two I'm happy with.

To avoid movement problems I like to rebate the bottom into the side as a floating panel. (ie. no glue.) If the box will have feet, I also like to rebate the the bottom edges of the bottom so it's flush to the bottom of the sides... if that makes any sense.

To me it looks more "finished" that way... but then again I'm a turner, so the first thing I do when I pick something up is turn it upside down.

Hell Android,
Saw your post and hope your move goes well.

Fitting bases mentioned above are the most conventional way but lately (my last three boxes) I have found the method I used in the pictures below as made a pleasant change.(for me)
It also provides a base for the box to sit on because the brackets also act as a sitting ledge.
Another reason is that it uses up lots of small offcuts that I seem to accumulate.
Timber can only come from a few sources, but one handy one to remember is if making boxes small pieces are acceptable and they can be resourced from old furniture discarded by residents or family at the local tip or skip.

Jow, I really like your boxes and what you are doing with strips and small bits. I'm curious, what kind of glue are you using for that and how are you preparing the edges of different pieces before you joint them? A jointer? Or something else? Is that something that can be done with a common home set up?



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To avoid hijacking this thread of android see my thread laminated boxes.

Gidday Android

FIRST!! There are no "folks" here when you meet a bunch of Aussies its "Gidday MATES!" folks is a term thats not in our vocabulary... mates in this context includes those mates who arent blokes or are honorary blokes (see the code of practice thread for elaboration on blokes and honorary blokes)

SECOND... there are no guys and gals here either... we are blokes an sheilas... we shall let you off this time... but from here on in sonshine GET IT RIGHT!!! Aussies = blokes & sheilas... Yanks = gals & guys... American forum guys & gals... Aussie forum blokes & sheilas... okay edjoomakatin the seppo over now onto the good gear!!

There is no set way to make boxes... some do it one way others do it another and yet others will do it another way its basically a personal thing.

As someone else has said with a Bandsaw SCMS and a router you can go knuts making boxes like theres no tomorrow!

As to where you souce your timber... well... mmm... Im a bit of a woodnut in that I will source it wherever I can find it... in the bush chainsaw it down or get a windfall cut it down to 2mtrs or less and cart it home to mill when I end up with enough out the back... cut a few trees down and wait till I find someone with a mill who wants to mill them this can be paid for by negotiation take part of the milled timber for themselves or cash... Ive also been known to frequent auctions or garage sales to get the stuff or even salvage yards... some of the recycled timber is great stuff!

I will also use ply when I can get it for a good price which isnt that common down here and LOVE veneering for boxes

As to bases I generally will use the veneered ply route and like to make "feet" for the boxes and I also make my own hinges and locks... this last is the greatest joy of all... well other than the finishing!!... I also wait till its all done to see the finish look as I dont particularily like surprises of the "OH GOD HOW BLOODY UGLY IS THAT!!" until Im done with it... If I have that reaction the kids get a new ubeaut made by dad box!!

As to the catsphiss you mentioned a better question is "why in flamin hell do they make the slop?"

Cheers and its time you showed some of your work ol son so stop muckin about pull yer socks up and flamin well pull yer finger out!!

oh and you know the rules right? you know the rules regarding the statement "your shout" dont you? Well BELLY UP TO THE BAR ol son and flamin well shout the bar will yer its a dry old argument here!!

Shane

thanks for the initiation shane, you've got me straightened out!

except the following... i got no bloody clue what rules are being questioned here...

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

oh and you know the rules right? you know the rules regarding the statement "your shout" dont you? Well BELLY UP TO THE BAR ol son and flamin well shout the bar will yer its a dry old argument here!!

Shane

thanks for everyone's responses, when i get set up the first thing coming out the new shop is a box! and i'll be sure to post it no matter how disfunctional it is!

- andrew

Welcome to the forum Andrew.

Here's my two cents worth. I guess I should point out that my tastes are a bit different to most of the other people here. Anyway, here is some things I have found useful.

Get yourself a mitre trimmer like this one http://www.lionmitertrimmer.com/ - or one of the cheaper clones. Set one end at exactly 45%, the other at 90% and you have the perfect tool for precisely cutting any component - and no noise, no dust and no lost fingers. I use my trimmer after every cut - its another level above what even the best saw can do. Making a box is basically a matter of assembling a group of small components, and the more perfect the components are the more perfect the result is likely to be.

Consider using veneer over plywood for the flat parts like lids and bases. Go to a local veneer merchant and ask for offcuts. I went to one here and for a contribution to the staffs christmas beer fund got a lifetime supply of offcuts.

Using veneer allows you access to the very best featured woods that you would never get as solids. Also, veneered ply will not bend or shrink/expand which allows you much more freedom in design then solid timber.

Make a simple caul press out of scrap timber, mdf and a few long bolts. Press the veneer to the ply using this and pva glue - soften the veneer if you need with water and glycerine. its a simple technique and hard to go wrong.

About timber, black walnut is one of the best and it goes well with walnut burl veneer or even Macassar ebony veneer. Birdseye maple for box interiors. Madrone burl. Curly cherry. Pomelle sapele. Waterfall Bubinga. All favourites of mine - I could only afford them as veneer. I use a lot of Australian cedar for solids, which is similar to Honduran mahogany in appearance.

As for hand tools or machine for joinery, I prefer hand tools. It takes a little longer, especially with dovetails, but then I dont think dovetails suit boxwork anyway, and especially not with highly figured timbers.

hope this helps
Arron