Thread: Hide Glue

Gassing off! please explain

I use PVA.

All I use is Selley's Aquadhere and never had a problem yet. I've built all the timber furniture in my house, about 14 guitars, and somewhere well over 400 boxes, never a problem.

Paul

Originally Posted by double.d

Gassing off! please explain

I use PVA.

Some PVA glue formulations give of more Acetic acid when they cure than others. PVA glues also vary in formulations and pH (acidity) with some marketed as "low acid." All are considered very safe and low or no VOC's.

For newly constructed boxes it has been known to attack / damage the silver solder used in jewelry to the point of failure of the soldered joint, creating some "Not happy Jan" customers out there.

"The degree of polymerization of polyvinyl acetate is typically 100 to 5000, while its ester groups are sensitive to base hydrolysis and slowly convert PVAc into polyvinyl alcohol and acetic acid."

ps look for PVA glues with a pH value nearer to 7 neutral than not. Titebond II pH 3.0, Sika pH 3.5


pH values

0 to 7 acidic (Sulphuric acid etc);
7 neutral (pure water);
7 to 14 base (ammonia beaches etc)

Crosslink Polyvinyl Acetate Wood Glues
pH RANGE


AVXL PLUS pH RANGE 4.0-5.0


Parfix PVA Wood Glue (Selley's) RANGE 4.0-6.0


Selley's Aquadhere Exterior RANGE 2.8-3.5


Sikabond PVA (Interior / Exterior) pH 3.5


Titebond II Premium Wood Glue 3.0


The pH scale measures how acidic or basic a substance is. The pH scale ranges from 0 to 14. A pH of 7 is neutral. A pH less than 7 is acidic. A pH greater than 7 is basic.


The pH scale is logarithmic and as a result, each whole pH value below 7 is ten times more acidic than the next higher value.

Hi China,

I use double-sided tape from eBay or double-sided adhesive sheets (express-It) from art stores. This stuff sticks like, er, jam to a blanket.

If it’s only one box you’re lining then Bear brand DS tape from Bunnings is good but a bit pricey.

I’ve used wet glues and spray glues for linings, but now it’s DS tape every time. Just my preference.

Regards,

Brian

Oops, I misread the opening question, thought it asked what glue do we use to make boxes. Sorry.

For my box linings, nothing is glued to the boxes. All my base linings is upholstery velvet folded over 1mm white cardboard with wadding in between to give a nice padded feel. Ring holders are held in place and not glued to anything. Its only on my watch boxes I line the sides with adhesive baize folded over 1mm cardboard and hot melt glued to the timber walls of each compartment.

I didn't really follow all that scientific stuff, way too scientific for me.

Talking about rings etc getting a tarnish look about them, some years ago I had a long chat with a woman who owned a jewellery making shop/business in Montville, very trendy touristy town up near Malaney. She said she had run her business there for over 50 years making jewellery. We got talking about that same subject, tarnish look on rings etc. She said to me it has nothing to do with whatever fabrics you use, it is all due to the people who wear them covering their hands with all sorts of hand creams, body lotions and so forth. It is the ingredients in that that cause this. To look after your jewellery properly it should be cleaned with some brand of jewellery cleaner stuff, she had it in her shop, before it is stored away in jewellery boxes etc.

Interesting,

Paul

Originally Posted by China

For those who have been making boxes for awhile, what type of glue do you use to attach linings, don't wish to use PVA because of the "Gassing Off" problem, Hide Glue?

Sure, hide glue would work. Liquid hide glue is a great product. The only problem for this application is the long open time means the linings will need to be clamped. That long open time is a feature for most other uses.

Hot hide glue might be easier to use for this application because of the very fast bond time.

Like homey I use double sided tape, but only on vertical linings. Base linings on boxes and trays are on a press fit cardboard base with the lining and padding spray glued to the cardboard. The double sided tape I use is this stuff - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3262...8dajG0YWr&mp=1 - originally recommended by woodPixel.

Yes I've used hide glue to glue lining to card or thin mdf. Paint the glue on, allow to gel position lining and use an iron to activate the hide glue.

Thanks for all the replies. I like the double sided tape idea, may be able to use it. the item in question is a ring box and will a "French Fitted style" it will house a very expensive ring hence the original question.
I will post the results and some pics when it is all completed, about to have a hip replacement so it may take a while

There are other options available from sewing & craft stores - No sew hemming tape; Heat N Bond etc

Heat N Bond Original White

I used to use Titebond II, and never had a problem UNTIL the box was filled straight after completion, with the ring holders the last thing to be done. Two 9 carat rings belonging to my wife crumbled. Researching this, I found that archivists are aware of the problem, and allow 30 days for PVA glue to finish off-gassing before they use the boxes, and they use low-gas PVA.
I now use double-sided tape.

I suppose you just got to be unlucky, i have sold 700+ boxes with leather lining glued in with PVA, Titebond and others as well as contact adhesive and never had a reported problem.

Originally Posted by double.d

I suppose you just got to be unlucky, i have sold 700+ boxes with leather lining glued in with PVA, Titebond and others as well as contact adhesive and never had a reported problem.

Likewise. I suspect that a week or so is enough for the off-gassing to be complete.