Thread: How to make a lid?

Have you already made the box?. If not you could just machine a 5mm deep rebate into the sides and ends and glue the lid in after putting the box together. Or you could make a groove down from the top edge and insert the lid as the box goes together. This would be the best way to go if you are worried about expansion.

If the box is together you could still do the 5mm rebate and square the corners off with a chisel or leave them round and trim the corners of the lid to suit.

I am using a varied range of timbers and have made a lot of boxes with captive lids and to this day none of them have shown signs of coming apart with expansion.

thanks double.d, I have not done the box sides yet. I normally don't like the idea of putting the lid in a groove below the top of the box, as the lip above the lid creates a nice area for dirt and dust to collect. Gluing the box into a rebate or on to the top of the box sides is still a concern for me with expansion and contraction with different atmospheric conditions. I want the box to be a heirloom item and last for decades

Dengy, if you haven't made the box yet, what's the problem. You could try mounting the lid on the top of the box after you have glued the sides and base together, then, when they dry you could mount the lid on the top, perhaps using small lengths of 4mm dowel to strengthen the joint. After that dries, just saw the lid off and mount the hinges.

At 5mm deep for the lid you will probably have problems mounting hinges any way, so I'd go for cutting a slot into the sides at about 4-6mm down from the top and use your normal method for finishing the joint.

How much movement are you expecting and what timber will you be using. Also,is the lid panel Black Heart Sassafrass or another type.

If you are worried about dirt accumulating on top of the box, then make sure you use a finish that is easy to wash with water or Spray and Wipe type product. Dust should not be a problem.

Something else just occurred to me. when you put the lid panel into the rebates (dados) can you make the cuts deeper than the dimensions of the lid panel. So cut the Groove to 8mm deep, but cut the lid panel so it is 3mm lower than the groove and of course, don't glue the lid panel into the groove. I never glue lid panels into place on my boxes.

Regards,

Rob

Thanks Rob, plenty of food for thought in your comments. I think it is blackheart sassafras as there is a fair bit of black grain in the board and on the edges (My first ever piece of sassafras, don't know much about it, other than it looks nice).

My main concern is whether a 5mm thick board 300 x 400 will have enough strength and stability for a lid, and whether it will move or even warp over time with humidity changes. It is not quartersawn, and there is a slight cup down the length of the board, even after it has been under weights on a flat surface for a few days

Even if I glued the board to the top of the box sides after assembly, or if I slotted the panel into a rebate just below the top of the box, leaving a lip, and then cut the box say 25mm from the top, will the the resultant lid be strong enough?

Hi Dengy,l

Something that occurred to me. You could put the Sassafrass straight onto the top of the box using How to Install Lid Support. A 400x300 mm box would certainly carry the hinge size and the lid would be free of bindings that may distort the shapes of the various panels. Even with this, I'd like to see at least a narrow edge around the Sassafrass

Hi Dengy

at 5mm thick, with a small warp and some residual defects, I'd treat your piece of Sassafras as a veneer.
If you are able, thickness the board first to remove some of the residual defects. My tool of choice to thickness would be a drum sander, but a thicknesser with a false table should also work. A hand plane will also work, and I'd use double sided tape to hold the thin board to a flat substrate.

Once the Sassafras is down to around 3mm thick, I'd glue it to either a piece of marine ply or another board around 8mm thick -- importantly I'd also glue a similar thickness backing veneer on the other side of the board. Once the glue is dry and you have cleaned up any squeeze out you will have a board around 14mm thick which can be sanded down to around 12mm (sand evenly on both faces) and used as a solid wood lid as you normally would when building a box.

Originally Posted by ian

Hi Dengy

at 5mm thick, with a small warp and some residual defects, I'd treat your piece of Sassafras as a veneer.
If you are able, thickness the board first to remove some of the residual defects. My tool of choice to thickness would be a drum sander, but a thicknesser with a false table should also work. A hand plane will also work, and I'd use double sided tape to hold the thin board to a flat substrate.

Once the Sassafras is down to around 3mm thick, I'd glue it to either a piece of marine ply or another board around 8mm thick -- importantly I'd also glue a similar thickness backing veneer on the other side of the board. Once the glue is dry and you have cleaned up any squeeze out you will have a board around 14mm thick which can be sanded down to around 12mm (sand evenly on both faces) and used as a solid wood lid as you normally would when building a box.

This is the approach I would take and have done myself a few times in the past although I used MDF as a substrate.

Again I would echo ian's comment about balancing the top veneer with a similar thickness backing veneer for stability.

Steven.