Ordinary Box

**Fencepost2** · 24th February 2010, 06:04 PM

This box is no triumph but I wanted you to hear bits of my rationale and hopefully to hear from you ways I can improve.

First I wanted a box that was close to the proportions of the golden ratio. Roughly this is 5 units deep, to 8 units wide, to 13 units long. I am using a Gifkins dovetail jig with the A10 template. This meant that, with generous half pins on the top and bottom, my sides would need to be 86mm deep, and this then fixed the width at approximately 135mm and the length at 220mm.

I didn't want to box to be too chunky and so I thicknessed the boards down to 8mm.

I used some recycled Jarrah for the ends and some Kauri Pine reclaimed from old McLaren Vale wine vats for the sides. And I thought if I wrote this provenance on the bottom of the box it would add to interest.

I was worried about the structural strength of the lid because I was going to split the box just below the first dovetail, and so I wanted to glue in the top panel rather than just have a floating panel. I veneered a thin piece of plywood, on one side a jarrah veneer and on the other side a piece (unknown) that looked similar to the Kauri.

I wanted to be able to flip the lid, so that in one orientation it was just an ordinary box, and in the upside-down lid position it could act like a desk caddy. So my plan was to secure the lid with lips glued lightly inside the box and sticking up about 5mm.

My execution was not perfect. I have difficulty in avoiding tearout when putting the router cutter through the pins. On the straight grained Kauri, even though I had a new backing piece supporting the wood, sharp cutter, and slow plunging, I had a couple of pins where I had to glue in little splinters to fill the tearout gap.

I split the box on my tablesaw and lost the 3mm kerf in height. But I was delighted that the lid fits on both ways and upside down too both ways so I got my glue up very square.

I was very sparing with glue, and didn't get much squeeze out. It is not noticeable by eye, although the camera picks it out and seems to exaggerate it.

I finished with sanding up to 400 grit, two coats of Danish Oil, and a polish with UBeaut.

Please comment on these procedures, hopefully in ways that will lead to a better box next time.

**chambezio** · 24th February 2010, 06:33 PM

Mr Fencepost
I think with an effort like that you will have to come out of the paddock and stay in doors where you can keep up with good work as displayed.
The visual shape of the box is pleasing to the eye, as is the choice of timber colours.
The photo is kind to your joints (no visible blowout patchups).
I wish I could advise a remedy to your blowout splinters, but you seem to have done everything right. Could the affected timber been particularly dry perhaps? I can't think of anything else
Great boxes though. You will find that your harshest critic will be yourself.

**munruben** · 24th February 2010, 06:46 PM

Very well done. I can only endorse what is said above, you have done all the right things according to the book and still having a little problem with tear out. Maybe someone else will come up with some more advice. All in all, you did an excellent job on the box.

**tea lady** · 24th February 2010, 06:57 PM

Great looking boxes. I like the reversable lid idea.

I'm no box maker, but I thought the "no glue the lid in" was cos of wood movement.

Sorry I can't be of help with your probs.

**Fencepost2** · 24th February 2010, 07:23 PM

Thanks Tea Lady, but I didn't explain it clearly. I used the plywood panel in the top so that I could glue it in to ensure the rigidity of the top. With a solid panel I think it is usual not to glue, except in a couple of spots in the middle of the width that it prone to the most movement. I like the reversable lid idea too, in fact I think I might play with a few compartments that might house a pen or two, and pins or paperclips.

**RufflyRustic** · 24th February 2010, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Fencepost2

This box is no triumph

oh yes it is!!!!

but I wanted you to hear bits of my rationale and hopefully to hear from you ways I can improve.

You'd be surprised how many other people will learn from a thread like this .

First I wanted a box that was close to the proportions of the golden ratio.

Ooooh my!! you know about this ratio??!! This is going to be one darn hot box!!

....some Kauri Pine reclaimed from old McLaren Vale wine vats for the sides. And I thought if I wrote this provenance on the bottom of the box it would add to interest.

I reckon the story will be the turning point for making a good box even greater!

...[talking about the lid] and in the upside-down lid position it could act like a desk caddy.

innovative idea alert!!!!!

My execution was not perfect.
[quote] So what! The story of your journey is keeping me enthralled! More! More!

.... although the camera picks it out and seems to exaggerate it.

damm those all-seeing and exaggerating camera shots!

welcome to the club!

Please comment on these procedures, hopefully in ways that will lead to a better box

Your wish is my command!

Tearout -by any chance would the tearout be due to the speed of the router

That is the only thing I can think of different to what has already been stated.

End result - a good, solid and very useable box. One that will be used and appreciated during its long life.

so, what might be next?

cheers
Wendy

**homesy135** · 25th February 2010, 12:50 AM

Dear Fencepost2,

Thanks for posting pictures of your box. Looks great to me. I really like the design feature of the reversible lid. Very clever.

I can't offer a solution to your splintering (as I also use recycled timber and have splintering issues). Wendy, should the router be on full-speed to reduce splintering?

Well done.

**artme** · 25th February 2010, 07:36 AM

Great looking box there and well made. Like the flip lid idea!!

**ToothFairy** · 25th February 2010, 12:42 PM

Looks great! Clever design, and beautifully made.

- Michael

**terryvk6pq** · 25th February 2010, 04:40 PM

Yep! I also like the idea of being able to flip the lid over. Good idea. I also thought that the router speed could make a difference. Can I suggest you try it at different speeds and also do not take big bites when cutting. Try slicing across the timber rather than straight through. Hope the suggestions help. Great looking box.

Must look up this formula for box sizes!

**Billyboydes** · 25th February 2010, 05:27 PM

Hi Fencepost,
Great clean looking box. The proportions look good and the execution looks clean.

The only suggestion I can make regarding tear out is that whenever I am cutting or routing sensitive areas I tape up with paper tape before routing / trimming.

Well done.
regards
Billy

**watson** · 25th February 2010, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by terryvk6pq

Yep! I also like the idea of being able to flip the lid over. Good idea. I also thought that the router speed could make a difference. Can I suggest you try it at different speeds and also do not take big bites when cutting. Try slicing across the timber rather than straight through. Hope the suggestions help. Great looking box.

Must look up this formula for box sizes!

G'day Terry,
Its in the Library
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f218/c...ulators-96019/
Under a Box Maker's Ratio Worksheet

**RufflyRustic** · 26th February 2010, 06:28 PM

Caught!!

I was hoping someone else would be able to add further info about the speed of the router and tearout. I'll try to remember to dip into my library and see what I find. thinking even more about this, I think for timber like this with a backing board, i don't think there is much more you can do.

Would it be worthwhile scoring the edges of the pins before routing them?

cheers
Wendy

**YeahNah** · 26th February 2010, 07:26 PM

Generally if you have tear out, your router is set too fast, and it's too slow if you notice burn marks. I think 15,000rpm should be your target speed.

Anyone agree / disagree?

**terryvk6pq** · 26th February 2010, 08:06 PM

A lot depends on the wood being used. As we all know some splinters more than others so try my original suggestion of adjusting the speed of the router up and down and see which works best. I know on my dovetails using Tas Oak, Jarrah, Sheoak, Marri and Pine, I've had very little splintering because I gently ease the cutter through the wood in a slicing action. Seems to work for me. I also always use a sacrificial piece behind the board being cut.

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