Thread: Ornamental Joints

I'm not 100% committed to the mitre theory, but I still think it's worth pondering. Peter seems to have a rotating "hinged" type process in mind: I didn't. Just a linear motion at 45 degrees to both faces, rather than parallel to both faces. Assuming that works, a four sided box could be assembled from two sub-assemblies of two-sides each.

Hi

Originally Posted by zenwood

I'm not 100% committed to the mitre theory, but I still think it's worth pondering. Peter seems to have a rotating "hinged" type process in mind:

Yes, I did as this would be the ONLY way you could achieve something like the joint shown.

I didn't. Just a linear motion at 45 degrees to both faces, rather than parallel to both faces. Assuming that works, a four sided box could be assembled from two sub-assemblies of two-sides each.

No, it is physically NOT possible to assemble such a join via a linear motion as you describe. The reason being that such a linear assembly would require the assembling of the joint begin at a point central to the mitred face of the joint. Any other linear motion would become a sliding motion of one piece on to the other, which as we have already decided, cannot be done. Such linear motion at 45º (or at 90º to each joint face) would require a wider opening at some point on the opposing joint face, to allow the wider "round" part to pass though. Such an opening would therefore be visible on the OUTSIDE of the visible joint.

I would draw it for you and show you, but my scanner does not instal properly in Windows XP and I don't have the time to draw it in software.

Originally Posted by MrFixIt

No, it is physically NOT possible to assemble such a join via a linear motion

I disagree. The attached diagram attempts to show how a keyhole finger can be assembled as part of a mitre joint using linear motion. Start at the top and imagine a dowelled mitre joint: the dowels are at 90 degrees to the face of the mitre, and at 45 degrees to each of the workpiece faces. The joint can be assembled using a linear motion parallel to the dowels. Now (the next one down) imagine putting a little shelf between the mitred face and the side of each dowel, and cut a corresponding slot in the other piece. These pieces can be assembled by a linear motion in exactly the same way as the dowelled pieces. This, I think, proves my point about linear assembly of keyhole fingers.

Still not sure if this is a method for Mr. Yazawa's box, I need to think about it some more...

Zenwood, this design works only for mitres. If you cut the mitres back (as in Mr Yazawa's box) you expose the base of the dowel. As the base of the dowel is not visible on the box, I believe that the design is more complex.

this is incredible jointery, ive been trying to figure out how that one was made for about an hour. there are more complex joints in his work but interestingly wea are all trying to figure out this one. probably becazuse it looks like we should be able to achieve it :confused: :confused:

I've just found Kintaro Yazawa's site now has three new images of this box entitled "Trick Joint Box Japanese Zelkova"

http://www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/~k-yazawa/jointwork.html

Tony Ward

Originally Posted by javali

Zenwood, this design works only for mitres. If you cut the mitres back (as in Mr Yazawa's box) you expose the base of the dowel. As the base of the dowel is not visible on the box, I believe that the design is more complex.

You've lost me there, Javal.:confused:

I've stared at the box for five more minutes, and I think my proposal works. I'll have to try drawing it. Then I'll try making it, but goodness knows how to go about cutting shelved dowels...

Look at the updated picture of Yazawa's Trick Joint box. The extreme close-up and open box view show convincingly that there is no Veneer work.

Also, look at his trick joint page at the new work middle-row far-right.
http://www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/%7Ek-yazawa/jointwork.html
It to seems to be an impossible joint since it it is locked in both directions. But it is doable. Here is my attempt from this afternoon to reproduce it.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/laboll...cd.jpg&.src=ph There are no camera tricks or voids. It slides in at an angle, provided it is cut accurately. My version was put together with no glue or adhesives at all and is rock solid based on the lock the joint provides.

Here is the same joint prior to sanding and rounding the edge of the joint.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/laboll...cd.jpg&.src=ph

I believe zenwood is on to the answer. Looking at the diagram, as long as the round part of the key-hole is bored at 45deg, then the joint should slip together linearly. Putting the fourth side on my be a bit tricky but i do think it is able to be done.

I think I'm on the right track, but going in the wrong direction...

Originally Posted by labolle

Look at the updated picture of Yazawa's Trick Joint box. The extreme close-up and open box view show convincingly that there is no Veneer work.

Also, look at his trick joint page at the new work middle-row far-right.
http://www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/%7Ek-yazawa/jointwork.html
It to seems to be an impossible joint since it it is locked in both directions. But it is doable. Here is my attempt from this afternoon to reproduce it.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/laboll...cd.jpg&.src=ph There are no camera tricks or voids. It slides in at an angle, provided it is cut accurately. My version was put together with no glue or adhesives at all and is rock solid based on the lock the joint provides.

Here is the same joint prior to sanding and rounding the edge of the joint.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/laboll...cd.jpg&.src=ph

Wow, Labolle, fantastic and you did this in an afternoon! Oh, and welcome aboard. Please excuse our lack of manners in not acknowledging your first post. What a start!

Obviously, you are not new to woodworking, so we look forward to some great contributions from you. Show us some more of your work.

Actually, I am pretty new to wood working. I got my first dovetail saw last summer and have been working hard to learn to cut through dovetails with Frank Klause's methods. THen I came onto the a page describing Double Twisted Dovetails about a month ago, and have been working hard on that one joint ever since. So far all I have made is lots of practice joints in scrap wood, like the one I showed, and a few simple boxes. My friend says when it comes to woodworking I am a one-trick-pony: dovetails. So far the internet has been a fantastic resource. I am waiting for some books on box making to come in the mail from Amazon now. THen I hope to learn how to add some trays, drawers, and internal divisions to make a proper jewelry box. Wish me luck.

Originally Posted by dnelson

Putting the fourth side on my be a bit tricky but i do think it is able to be done.

The fact that it has been done shows that it can be done. I believe that they are done at a 45 degree angle like the double-twisted-dovetail I assembled is done. To assemble a box two opposing corners would be done first creating two L-shaped pieces, then the two remaining opposing corners would be at slid down at the same time using those L-shaped pieces.

labolle,
yeah that is how I was imagining it to be done.

By the way: Welcome and fantastic work on the joint you show.