Developing Finishing Technique

**Schtoo** · 24th March 2007, 02:07 AM

Lou, I am coming in late here, but this is what I typically end up doing.

Finish with a plane or scraper OR sandpaper to #320. Do not plane/scrape one surface and sand another because the difference is scary to say the least. I only sand when it's not critical or the grain is boring. If the woods worth looking at, then plane or scrape every time for me.

Then oil, whatever I can get. Either a local flower based oil (dries fast, smells good, not too dark and the base oil is a dietary additive so relatively safe) or BLO.

When that's dry, drown it (with a rag) in water or oil based urethane. Oil based thinned 1:1 with turps, water based 5:1 with water. Let it sit till it's soaked in a bit, then wipe off whats left. If it's water based, bin the rag. Oil based, put the application rag in the wipe off rag, and put it somewhere where it won't dry out oo quickly. Also been known to throw the oil in with the oil based urethane. Works quite well, simple Danish-esque oil.

Next day, scuff sand with #600. Take yesterdays application rag, see that's it still wet/tacky, and use it as a tack cloth to pick up all the sanding dust/crud. Wipe on another coat with a fresh rag and make sure you leave each surface wet before moving to the next bit. Walk away and don't look back till a few hours at least and then do it again. Be gentle and all should be well.

Next day, scuff sand and use your applicator rag as a tack cloth again, repeat application.

At this point, it should look pretty slick. The urethane should self flatten if there's enough there, which is why you walk away and don't look. Let it work. The finish won't be thick, but should be sufficient to give good protection. It's easy to apply since you only need clean rags. Keep it up at regular intervals so the next coat will burn into the previous coat enough to stick without needing sanding. The sanding keeps all the dust nibs down and keeps things flat. Plus you score urethane compatible tack rags, fresh for each sanding episode. I don't use brushes any more, always ended up with more work to get it flat again, lots of drips and other general nastiness.

If you do brush, use the very best brush you can, and make sure it's right for the finish. Makes a poor choice (IMHO) less troublesome.

Also like laquer for smaller stuff, or shellac for things that won't see much dirty work but need protection.

Last time I was in Bunnies, the wood finish section was decent sized.

About 5 times the size it is here.

Here we get generic stuff, or megabuck stuff I can't trust/don't like. I stick to the generic and make it work.

That's what works for me right here anyway. Lack of choice and environmental conditions that are different to what you got.

**Arch Stanton** · 24th March 2007, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Schtoo

Then oil, whatever I can get. Either a local flower based oil (dries fast, smells good, not too dark and the base oil is a dietary additive so relatively safe) or BLO.

Hi Schoo,

thanks for the detailed post. I'm new to the finishing process but have somehow stumbled across a poor man's version of what you have outlined and have seen my results getting better each time. A couple of questions.

What does the initial oil do?

Now, at a risk of looking very dumb, I will show my ignorance.
What sort of oils can I use? Linseed, olive, vegetable? Do I get them at the supermarket or hardware?

Brian

**echnidna** · 24th March 2007, 05:50 PM

only use oils that dry
Linseed (flaxseed), tung , walnut and I think grapeseed oil
theres a few other drying oils but I don't recall them all

**Big Shed** · 24th March 2007, 05:56 PM

See here for drying oils:

http://www.cad-red.com/mt2/oil.html

**Schtoo** · 24th March 2007, 07:12 PM

Yeah, oil that dry are important. Basically, the oil oxidizes with the oxygen in the air and goes hard/rubbery. It's a finish of sorts all by itself, but it has very little durability. Most oil will eventually oxidize all by themselves, but we are talking years at least, possibly centuries.

So, the old way was to boil the oil to speed up it's drying, but now they add chemicals to make the oil dry much faster. The oil I use 'dries' within 24 hours no matter what the weather. Boiled linseed oil can take from 24-72 hours before you can do anything with it.

The oil makes the grain 'pop'. On a plain piece of wood, it's really not worth the effort. On a nice piece of wood, it's definitely worth the effort. You can also mix the oil with the finish as a first sealer coat, but I don't.

The stuff I am doing right now made the wood go from interesting to insane. Not using oil to make the grain come alive would be an insult to the tree.

I will take pics tomorrow to show you what I mean.

**NewLou** · 24th March 2007, 07:28 PM

Great to hear from you again Schtoo

Great advise too.......................Im really falling in love with rubbed oil finishes & Shellac. I hear a lot champion the merits of urethaine type finishes lacquers etc etc but in the long term I just cant see how an oil rubbed finish can be beaten.

All the others eventually scratch n wear.................... Oil you just re coat n shes back to new....................Ive been lucky enough to meet a finisher thats shown me some aged shellac pieces.............................. Absolutely beautiful

Ive almost got the hang of applying Tung n must say so far its by far my favourate.

REGards Lou

**Richardwoodhead** · 26th March 2007, 05:46 AM

Hi Lou,

Must be ESP as I havn't clicked into the forum for quite awhile. But something told me to log in and I saw your posts. As always, you bring great enthusiasm and integrity to your subject matter.

I've been severely distracted over the last year. But it's all coming to an end mid April when I'm free and single again. Poorer, wiser, and happier. Long story that needs many beers to re-tell.

Anyway, I haapen to be doing a crappy wood finishing job for a friend who wanted 12 MDF work benches finished with a hard wearing water proof product. So I went with my trusty Feast Watson Floor Seal which worked a treat. Except for the odd spray gun hassle.

But as I was spraying this 40 square meters of MDF (and swearing on my mothers grave I'd NEVER commit to do anything with MDF again) I began to wonder about the pleasure of a perfect finish that comes from working the wood by hand. Spraying is very clinical. But it's a great way to get a quick and even finish, especially over large surfaces.

But re-reading this thread from go-to-woe, I'm now inspired to re-visit the Tung Oils and ALSO I was very interested in the EEE method..... VIZ:

1. sand to 240 grit
2. use EEE (maybe also sanding in with a VERY fine grit??)
3. apply Shellawax or Shellawax Cream

Job done and with sensual pleasure to boot (being single again, this could be important!)

Anyway... has anyone got any feedback as to how this (or Tung Oil) finishes work for larger pieces like dining tables etc? ALSO - how scratch & heat / water resistant are they?

Good to be back,

Richard

**Schtoo** · 26th March 2007, 11:18 PM

Oil's durability is effectively zero as far as I am concerned. If the surface is to see heat, water or abrasion as part of it's MO, then oil is just asking for disappointment.

However, when thrown on a nice flat surface, it looks fantastic.

I put on oil, then oil or water based urethane over the oil. Keep the urethane thin, and you get a nice in the wood finish with heaps more durability. Just make sure you let the oil dry before putting urethane over the top, and keep everything clean otherwise you might get adhesion problems.

See the pic for what it looks like. That includes you Brian.

This is a drawer face chosen because I knew it was going to look pretty good when finished. The picture doesn't do it justice, it changes colour depending on where you stand from golden yellow to deep brown-red.

The bright sections are where oil helps bring out the figure. Straight urethane/laquer over the top will bring it out some, the oil makes it really pop. And since it's a drawer face, it needs to have a durable surface since it's going to get scuffed up with rings, fingernails, etc, etc. The urethane itself isn't easily repairable, but rubbing it back smooth, then wiping on another thin coat brings it back.

BTW, this thing looks flat when sanded. It was planed (from about 10,000 different directions) and scraped where the plane would not work. Made an enormous difference.

**NewLou** · 27th March 2007, 12:07 AM

Thx to all for your fantastic contrabutions

Must admit I've certainly read n chewed the fat over different finishes n techniques often with varying n conflicting view points in regards to Tung Oil finishes.

What I have learned that appears to be a rule of thumb well worth considering is The recommended finish on a piece of furniture is very much depended upon the use of that piece, that is, what is the wear and tear factor is going to be.

The alternative to natural rubbed oil n oil blends being a lacquered type 'coating' or build finish will start accumulating marks and scratches from day one, even the tougher two pack lacquers are no comparison to the 100% natural finish (In my opionion)

N I really think thats a factor worth considering build type finishes particularly in the longer term will ultimately offer less durability. In twenty years time a table with a natural finish will look even better than the day it was purchased and that simply won't happen with any artificial coating no matter how good it is.

n recent years, those who appreciate the warm richness of beautiful wood have begun to realize what the ancient Chinese knew; when turned into a finishing product, Tung Oil is the finest natural wood finish in existence and has yet to be duplicated synthetically! (In my opionion)!

A Tung Oil finish is hard yet flexible, water-resistant and impervious to alcohol and many food acids. Polymerized Tung oil as a penetrating oil allows wood to continue its aging process and to develop its patina.

The wood's rich color and grain are enhanced by the natural ambering (coloring) of Polymerized Tung oil over time. Any sign of wear disappears when a thin "maintenance" coat of oil is rubbed in. The maintenance coats, rather than cause a build-up, actually improve the patina as they protect and preserve the wood. A floor, a piece of furniture, or any other wood object finished and maintained with Polymerized Tung Oil will never have to be stripped again.The finish will become more beautiful with time and will not conceal the timbers tactile qualities.

As I've learnt more about finishing I've come to the conclusion that all finishing techniques will wear to varying degress depending on their purpose.Some finishes provide excellent short to medium term protection whilst others continue to evolve (eg Tung oil finishes that develop a patina or aged shellac) and actually improve with time. Its these qualities that attract me to a HAnd Rubbed Tung Oil Finish!!!

Regards Lou

**thumbsucker** · 27th March 2007, 01:44 AM

Were do you get polymerized /stood Tung oil in OZ? What about Sun thickened Tung oil which has a much faster drying time then polymerized oil - see here, I have a bottle of pure tung oil that I am thickening with the sun it will take 4 months.

**ciscokid** · 27th March 2007, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Schtoo

Not using oil to make the grain come alive would be an insult to the tree.

I couldn't possibly agree any more. Well said.

**Arch Stanton** · 27th March 2007, 08:18 AM

I am learning a fair bit from this thread.

I once put pure tung oil on the pedestal base of my poker table. It looked great when I frist did it.

The problem was it never really seemed to dry and after the first game it was all scuffed from people's shoes.

I have since reveneered the base and this time I stained it and finished it with a matt poly. This time it didn't scuff but it also is nothing special to look at.

I'm not going to do it again but for future projects I'll try tung, poly,EEE.

Schtoo, I did look at the pic.

I imagine that it would look a lot better in the flesh.

Brian

**Schtoo** · 27th March 2007, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by NewLou

n recent years, those who appreciate the warm richness of beautiful wood have begun to realize what the ancient Chinese knew; when turned into a finishing product, Tung Oil is the finest natural wood finish in existence and has yet to be duplicated synthetically! (In my opionion)!

A Tung Oil finish is hard yet flexible, water-resistant and impervious to alcohol and many food acids. Polymerized Tung oil as a penetrating oil allows wood to continue its aging process and to develop its patina.

Regards Lou

Why did you ask the question if this was the answer for you and you already knew it?

I don't use tung oil, never have and probably never will. Can't get it.

I do use a different oil that's fairly similar and dries faster, and I have trouble getting that too.

Oiled wood is very nice, but like I said above it has zero durability. No resistance to abrasion, moisture or heat. If any one of those conditions exist to a significant degree, then the wood is going to turn to garbage pretty quickly, and no re-application is going to fix it.

On a nice chair that's rarely sat on, great. On a small jewelry box, fine. On a dining table, go right ahead but I might be able to resist saying "I told you so" when the finish and the underlying wood is permanently damaged by someone spilling their gravy...

(BTW, ever seen a properly applied Japanese finish? Slicker than snot, hard as a rock and the laquer comes from trees...)

**NewLou** · 27th March 2007, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Schtoo

Why did you ask the question if this was the answer for you and you already knew it?

What question are you referring to Schtoo?

With respect......................Put simply I just don't agree with your statements about Tung oil and its lack of durability...............do a Google search

How much abrasion, moisture or heat do you expect indoor finishes to be exposed to?

Properly prepped and applied a Tung oil finish is durable enough to easily cope with the odd spill of gravey etc IF you were to get some kind of damage or stain easy repairability is the biggest advantage of a tung finish.

Bet that Jap lacquer finish would be a real hog to do a repair on

Regardless I don't think theres any 'perfect' finish they all have their pros/cons strengths n weaknesses.

I just happen to love the way a well done Tung finish 'popps' the grain and evolves as it ages.....................something most other finishes dont do anywhere near as well!!!!

REgards Lou

**manoftalent** · 27th March 2007, 05:58 PM

I have only done small spray jobs at the moment but one thing that really bothers me due to the time it wastes is dust ....so I built a portable booth out of 3mm ply that I had lying around ...basically four panels all hinged about 1800mmx1200mm.....so when I closed the last piece over by hand I had a draft free place to spray in ....I usually apply a sanding sealer after the stain(if I use one)..sand back ..then apply high gloss top coat and rub back again...and follow on through with two more coats ....my trick is to wet sand back and blow dry....then move the booth to a free dust free space and spray again.....the work is on a lazy susan for easy movement, and I apply the spray in small thin coats rather than rush it .....all this is done on the back lawn ....an area where I have plenty on room to move about .......the booth is only surrounding the workpiece when spraying ....not sanding ...to avoid contamination.....and I lay el cheapo plastic drop sheets on the grass (not that it matters, one cut and the evidence is gone)...but it does help to provide a draft free enviroment ....the top of course is left open air ....so I can breath ....and plenty of natural daylight to see what I am doing ....

so too sum it up ...finishing is like bread making .....the more effort you put in, the better result ....

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