Thread: Drying time for hard burnished BLO (Diggers brand)

"Once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year and then every birthday."
Brett, that is what we were taught as apprentices for a good oil finish. Seeing this is only a bench top, the first instruction would be more than adequate. The lack of info on drying time would be due to the seasonal variables.
If you dont allow each coat to dry before applying the next you end up with a sticky mess. Rub each coat in and
wipe off with a dry lint free rag after each coat. This weather it should be dry next day. If not, leave it until the tack has gone. DONT LEAVE OILY RAGS ABOUT AS THEY CAN CATCH FIRE. We dont want a bench BBQ

Cheers Ken.

"Seeing this is only a bench top,....". Well ex-kee-YUSE me! I happen to like as a good a finish in the barn as anywhere else. How else would I get inspiration?

What do you think about increasing the oil content as the coats get more numerous? Drying time will increase of course, but that's okay (as you say, in this heat, and apparently it's not over yet). Warmest summer I've known up here, actually (4 years).

Yeah, I thought that would get a rise out of you
You can increase the oil for a richer finish but often the oil will reactivate in hot weather. If twas mine, I would keep the turps in there. An over oily bench is a pain.

Rightio then. I was only thinking about increasing the oil for glue non-stick etc, so I'll keep the turps up - re-oil if necessary.

Btw, the local Home Hardware had the oil (I was a bit surprised actually). At $9.90 per litre it beats the hell out of $36 per half litre from Carbatec (yup, 7x the price). Theirs was Liberon, and supposedly a finer quality. Be interesting to see the two side by side on the same piece of timber....

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Rightio then. I was only thinking about increasing the oil for glue non-stick etc, so I'll keep the turps up - re-oil if necessary.

Btw, the local Home Hardware had the oil (I was a bit surprised actually). At $9.90 per litre it beats the hell out of $36 per half litre from Carbatec (yup, 7x the price). Theirs was Liberon, and supposedly a finer quality. Be interesting to see the two side by side on the same piece of timber....

Glue on the bench top??!!! That would be like blood on the wattle!

Originally Posted by LGS

So, Brett,
This hard burnishing you'll be doing. What protocol do you have in mind? Why did you choose BLO? You can buy Sceney's pure Tung Oil for $20/litre at most good hardware shops. Cut it 1:3 with White Spirit and you'll get an excellent finish.
If you haven't read this thread, I suggest you do so, it has a lot of testing information about several oils, particularly from about post 8.

LGS

So far for oiling I have only used Organoil Danish, and have been very pleased with the results (although I'd really like the grain to look like it does when the oil is first applied and wet - just magnificent detail in the grain). I wanted to try a different oil this time, for experience, and I had noted that BLO was a popular choice for benches. Furthermore, I want to experiment with cooking some steel with BLO, as per the "Benchcrafted" method - the results they show look really good. (not sure if they used BLO or LO, which they refer to as Flax Seed Oil, as I recall).

For the process, I'll probably follow the same as I did last week for some drawer fronts:

• Dry sand up to 500g, and then finish with a Dust-Disc (essentially another abrasive disc without the sandpaper skin).
• Soak the job in the oil of choice (but having read your link, I'll leave it for longer this time - only about 10 minutes last week)
• Wet sand with 500g, wipe off the excess slurry
• Soak again and wet sand with 1500g, wipe off the excess slurry (which is not much from the fine grit)

I know this skips several grits, but this was a suggestion from the abrasive supplier for a test on their purpose made wet sanding abrasives (although I have run out of these abrasives, and was just using their regular abrasives). It seems to work really well, with no scratch marks that can be seen, and a lustrous baby's bum finish. On one set of the drawers I went over them with 3000g (dry sanded a day later), and this definitely gives a nicer patina which is a notch up, but still within the satin finish.

I'll probably just finish at 1500g for the workbench - seems a little excessive going to 2500 for something that will have the crap beaten out of it, but I'll determine that at the time.

Interesting to note something that came up during the preliminary dry sanding. I was using a combination of brands within the grits (just worked out that way, with the discs that were already in use):

• Jost 150g (with very small 2mm and highly numerous hole pattern)
• Festool 220g Granat (with the regular 32 hole pattern)
• FT 320g
• J 500g

Some of the drawer fronts are very narrow (shallow tool drawers) at about 60mm wide. The FT discs were jagging a bit on these narrow boards, but the Jost were not. I can only put that down to the larger holes creating some sort of mischief. No big deal at all, but certainly noteworthy, and a little offputting at the time.




One of the less desirable aspects of wet sanding is that the pad of the sander gets quite wet with oil. If you go back to dry sanding another job after that then the abrasive backs get a good oil soaking. I didn't notice that this had any particular effect, so maybe it's no big deal unless there is enough oil there to penetrate through to the abrasive side (may not want oil on the next job). That gave me cause to think that for anybody who chooses to do a lot of wet sanding then maybe a dedicated sander for that purpose may be in order. This may well become a problem with the very fine Jost abrasives because they are just sponge with an abrasive coating - no paper layer to mitigate the transfer of oil from sanding pad to the abrasive side - I imagine they are pretty similar to Platin fine abrasives with no DE holes.

Another thing that has been on my mind re wet sanding is whether or not there is any need for DE holes at all - indeed, are they in fact counter-productive. You don't want the slurry to be taken away from the job at all. I do not have a hose attached for wet sanding (can't see the point). The specialised wet sanding abrasives that Jost sent out still have the 2mm hole pattern, and I would have thought that they could save some manufacturing cost by not punching them, as well as delivering a product that is even more purpose made - it would certainly reduce the amount of oil transferred to the sander's pad. Perhaps it is a case of "Grandma's pan" from the manufacturer - we always punch holes in abrasives......

Originally Posted by rustynail

Glue on the bench top??!!! That would be like blood on the wattle!

I had always thought (and experienced) that yellow glue (Titebond II in this case) does not stick to polished granite. I have a granite sheet that is super-useful for a myriad of tasks, including glue-ups - good flat surface to reference to. Never had a problem before, but last week it did stick. I thought that the job had just stuck to the timber frame around the granite sheet, and so gave it a tap with a hammer. Hmmm, maybe a stronger tap is required, and so it was duly applied. Oopsie, couple of nice granite crystals stuck to the job. Lesson learnt, and baking paper laid down for the next glue-up.

A similar thing happened using some 3M micro-abrasives for sharpening a while ago. There are three grades the Lee Valley sell, but they are slightly different - and so is the PSA glue on the back. When i peeled up one of them the PSA remained in tact - on the granite. Man that was a bitch of a stuff to get off. Ended up using turps and a paint scraper and it took ages. One of the sheets came off intact (but not easily) and had several crystals stuck to it. I guess granite is a consumable after all.

Hmmm.

I applied the first coat of 50/50 BLO/mineral turps 48 hours ago. As the timber was up to 100 years old, it was very, very dry and thirsty, and I gave it a good solid flood coat, which sat for an hour before sanding in with a 500g disc. Immediately rubbed of the excess slurry, and left a fan blowing directly on it overnight. Then 2-3 more rub downs with a clean cloth yesterday. For most of yesterday the shed was closed up, and it was pretty damn warm in there. For the rest of the waking hours I have had the aircon running in there.

Now this may just be a function of BLO (which I have not used before), but any dust that settles on it is absorbing oil (quite distinctly) to the point where it is damp with oil. I've just been routing a T-Track trench so there was plenty of dust about 80-120g in size.

What does the brains trust think please? Should I do another 50/50 coat with 1500g now or wait until dust doesn't absorb oil anymore (that could be some days by the look of things). I need to give it a rub down with a slightly turpsy rag to get the dust and possible alum particles off it (now) as they won't brush of vac off.

Brett,.....
What are you trying to achieve? Hard burnishing or just wet sanding over a few days to finish the top of the bench. What you are doing is NOT burnishing. Forget the BLO and get some Sceney's Tung Oil and some white spirits. Dilute the Tung Oil down 1:2 or 1:3 with the Spirit ( or Sceney's citrus Terbene) then saturate the work piece, leave it for half an hour, then wet it again. Let it sit for 1/2 an hour to 1 hour, then use the 400g to wet sand the oil into the wood. You mustn't have read the thread I directed you to, or you would understand how hard burnishing works!
After the 400g, leave the slurry alone and try an 800g pad, followed by 1200,1500,2000 and if you want 4000g. By this stage there won't be any slurry left, but a brisk rub with a cotton cloth will finish the process beautifully.
I don't know what these "Jost" pads are all about, but if they're the ones you had Lignum test some years ago..ditch them and use Festool. Remember..Garbage in, Garbage out.
Dust will not be a problem as it will wipe off easily. And that's the end of the process.

If you need further assistance, PM me.

Originally Posted by LGS

Brett,.....
What are you trying to achieve? Hard burnishing or just wet sanding over a few days to finish the top of the bench. What you are doing is NOT burnishing. Forget the BLO and get some Sceney's Tung Oil and some white spirits. You mustn't have read the thread I directed you to, or you would understand how hard burnishing works!

What I'm trying to achieve is an oiled worktop bench, that will have no-stick qualities. Heat resistance and no liquid rings are very secondary considerations. Before any wet sanding or HB or whatever it is that I'm doing, I went over the areas that had fully absorbed the oil with another generous coat. I did not go over the whole top as there was plenty of oil still sitting on top of about 60-70% of it ( fully glossy) - there are different species of timber and age/condition. There didn't seem to be any point in adding oil to that 60-70% when there was still an abundance there.

The bit that I didn't retain when I read your instructions on the website was to keep going through the grits after the oil had soaked in (and there's a good reason why I didn't retain that). I had it in my mind that a second coat of oil was done after the 400g burnishing.

FWIW, I have a minor brain injury from a car incident a few years ago, and sometimes this means that I don't retain information correctly, and have to read instructions a few times. The only real problem with that is that I'm still not used to this little glitch, and sometimes proceed thinking that I have it all nutted down, but in fact don't.

What do you have against BLO? You seem to think in your reports that BLO gives great protection - the equal of two others, as I recall. It matters not in this case what the sheen is like - it's not a table. Also, I would have thought that it's not a good idea to start using a different type of oil over the BLO. Maybe it doesn't make any difference, I don't know anywhere near enough about chemistry to make a determination on that. In any case I'd really like to persist with the BLO to see what the result is. It's not like I'm in a hole - just wondering about the drying time (which maybe/possibly/probably would have been less had I kept going through the grits to 2500.

I don't know what happened to your original post. Did you delete it? I responded at length with the procedure that I had followed the previous week and with what I intended to do this time. I noted that you had read the thread again since that post, and given that you didn't come back with a response, I assumed that I must have got it right (for once). I mean, usually if there is the smallest thing you are very quick to "assist" me.

Originally Posted by LGS

I don't know what these "Jost" pads are all about, but if they're the ones you had Lignum test some years ago..ditch them and use Festool. Remember..Garbage in, Garbage out.
Dust will not be a problem as it will wipe off easily. And that's the end of the process.

What do you think is wrong with Jost pads? You think they're garbage? Really? Is it because I use them? Nah, couldn't be - could it? That wouldn't be scientific and objective at all: to make a call that something is garbage only because a certain person uses them. There is no way that they are causing the oil to dry slowly, so I don't get your connect there. I actually think it's more to do with the amount I flooded it with, or it's a characteristic of BLO, or more probably both.

I have a good supply of FT and Jost in the same (or very similar) grits. After posting the other day about the "jagging" that I experienced with FT discs on the narrow boards, I noticed it again when I was sanding the benchtop, so it's not the narrowness of the boards that caused it. Without having done any kind of purpose driven testing on dust extraction comparisons I haven't noticed any discernable difference in DE between Jost and FT. Now I know how poorly you think I do any testing, but hey, I'm not a scientist, just a an inquisitive guy having a go. That's ok isn't it?

Don't get me wrong - I welcome help - that's why I posted, but it would be nice if you could offer your help in the same way as you do for other people rather than in the process trying to portray me as a ... I don't know what, actually. A fool - is that it? A pretentious hyped up twat that thinks he knows more than he does? Buggered if I know, but the attitude is always there, just under the surface. It goes into remission for a while after you are told to leave off by admin(s), and then out it comes again.

I've tried to be conciliatory to you - offered you some wet-sanding abrasive samples to evaluate, and you didn't even have the grace to reply.

What is it man? Why don't you just come out and say it? By PM will do. Seems to me that you read everything that I post - looking for errors to jump on? Live and let live I reckon. Hey! You could even try the odd compliment!

Thank you for the tirade. There's nothing really more to say. Good night

So in looking over this thread, there are some points to note that may save people heart ache when finishing a project in an oil finish

1. If you are using a method, or a product you have not used before, it pays to perform the process on a scrap piece of the timber you will be using before you apply the oil and method to real project.
2. Often the price of one product may be higher than a similar product. This can often be a result of the fact that there is Technical Support available for the more expensive product. Also it is possible that this product has been tested under the regime you intend to use.
3. When you have decided on a method for your finish, make sure you have the steps straight in your mind. If needs be, write them down and then follow the directions from your sheet of paper.
4. If you feel that there is a difference between "just a workbench" and a finished product for others to have or to view, ask yourself where this cut off line begins. An acceptance of lower quality for some projects and higher for others leaves the gate open for you to aim for a lesser finish.


Regards,

Rob

I added a second coat of BLO/Turps (not a heavy coat, and four days after the first) and left it to sit for about 30 minutes. Sanded with 500g, 1600, 2500 in succession, and then rubbed down.






Two pics as a comparison to show with the full reflections, and then with a polarising filter, which reveals the timber by minimising reflections.








The Tail Vise corner with light placed to show relections




and with a polariser

Very nice!
Better when you take the time to read then do it properly.

LGS