Thread: French polish mop oil(which one?)

Originally Posted by Horsecroft88

... what do you mean by a rubber ?? I am not sure I am entirely clear on that. Do you mean the pad (that is, a core with lint free cloth wrapped around it) that one uses to apply the shellac with do you ?

That's it. Some people call it a 'fad' or a 'tampon', but that's alltogether too yucky!

Originally Posted by Woodwould

That's it. Some people call it a 'fad' or a 'tampon', but that's alltogether too yucky!

Yes, well!!! OK..so, another technique for us to have a try at!! I think I'll wait to see how you fare HC!

BTW WW, do you have any special ways of making your pads....secret folding rituals, shapes etc.? When doing the desk, I simply used heaps of shreded cotton cloth then bound them tightly in a square piece of cloth...worked OK, but as yo knowk I had better results from a brush. Lawry

Ah excellent, thanks for that again WW. Good to see that is not some special piece of equipment for polishing that I wasn't aware existed or needed to be used. Hmn yes I too think I will stick with the term pad. Not so keen on use of the other choice for this sort of work.

For sure Lawry I know what you mean. I am not sure I was even aware previously of such a technique re adding oil and had wondered on occasions how "master French Polishers" could achieve such a high level of finess in the gloss/lustre in the finish. I mean I can get a pretty good result but for really high quality furniture, such a finish is yet another level above what I have ever achieved. At least now I know how, next to try to achieve this.

Regarding the pad, well from all I have read and seen (in books/videos) you basically need a firm pad (core) which fits well into the palm of your hand, possibly slightly larger than the palm area. It should be roundish/flat in shape and then the binding material you use over it needs to be stretched firm and held in contact with your palm, if that makes sense. The polishing surface itself of the pad needs to be wrinkle/crease free, so that you don't cause marks when polishing.

The technique mostly used by the pros is a figure of 8, to apply the shellac coatings. Having said that, while for something like a table top or similar flat surface, I too use that technique the other thing i try to do is to follow the grain of the wood. Basically what I am always trying to avoid doing is build up an uneven surface or markings cross grain, since when it comes to the final part, cutting back and waxing, you don't want any such issues to have deal with, as that means harder cutting back and potentially cutting too much through the shellac coating over the item polished.

As for use of brushes, well yes I too use them, especially for tricky areas, mouldings etc, be it on furniture or joinery. I have even in the past used them on flat surfaces, however, once I have built up a base layer, I tend mostly to go over to the pad technique, even on areas such as table/chair legs etc. Hope that helps a little.

Originally Posted by Horsecroft88

Regarding the pad, well from all I have read and seen (in books/videos) you basically need a firm pad (core) which fits well into the palm of your hand, possibly slightly larger than the palm area. It should be roundish/flat in shape and then the binding material you use over it needs to be stretched firm and held in contact with your palm, if that makes sense. The polishing surface itself of the pad needs to be wrinkle/crease free, so that you don't cause marks when polishing.

I use cotton wadding for the reservoir and fine cotton lawn for the outer wrapping and aim for something the size and shape of a large mouse/small rat.

Originally Posted by Horsecroft88

The technique mostly used by the pros is a figure of 8, to apply the shellac coatings. Having said that, while for something like a table top or similar flat surface, I too use that technique the other thing i try to do is to follow the grain of the wood. Basically what I am always trying to avoid doing is build up an uneven surface or markings cross grain, since when it comes to the final part, cutting back and waxing, you don't want any such issues to have deal with, as that means harder cutting back and potentially cutting too much through the shellac coating over the item polished.

That's where the oil and spiriting off comes in. If you're leaving tracks when padding, you've either got too much polish in the rubber or you're putting too much pressure on it. Spiriting-off will remove any tracks.

Originally Posted by Horsecroft88

As for use of brushes, well yes I too use them, especially for tricky areas, mouldings etc, be it on furniture or joinery. I have even in the past used them on flat surfaces, however, once I have built up a base layer, I tend mostly to go over to the pad technique, even on areas such as table/chair legs etc. Hope that helps a little.

I haven't French polished anything for over twenty five years; I detest the look of it. Georgian furniture wasn't French polished, so I have no need of the process. With the reproduction stuff I make now, I brush everything (oil/spirit varnish) and pad very little.

Thanks for all the clarifications WW. I am a little puzzled though regarding your comments concerning French polishing, especially in context to Georgian furniture. By French polishing I assume you mean 'true French polishing' as opposed to padding, such as I have been doing for so many years using shellac. My point being that if you are suggesting that shellac finishes were not used on georgian furniture or joinery, from my experience I would have to disagree. I have furniture dating back to the 1820-1830s which are totally original and have a shellac finish. Conversely if you mean the ultra high gloss of high end furnature than I understand where you are coming from. I am interested in trying the oil finish approach with shellac, if only for the experience of learning from. As I only work as a rule with old timbers and antiques I am happy to continue with the approaches I use.

Originally Posted by Horsecroft88

Thanks for all the clarifications WW. I am a little puzzled though regarding your comments concerning French polishing, especially in context to Georgian furniture. By French polishing I assume you mean 'true French polishing' as opposed to padding, such as I have been doing for so many years using shellac. My point being that if you are suggesting that shellac finishes were not used on georgian furniture or joinery, from my experience I would have to disagree. I have furniture dating back to the 1820-1830s which are totally original and have a shellac finish. Conversely if you mean the ultra high gloss of high end furnature than I understand where you are coming from. I am interested in trying the oil finish approach with shellac, if only for the experience of learning from. As I only work as a rule with old timbers and antiques I am happy to continue with the approaches I use.

By "Georgian" I mean Georges I, II and III. Although the prince Regent became George IV following the death of his father in 1820, his ten year rule isn't generally considered 'Georgian'. For years, the BADA drew a line at 1820 (ignoring the 100 year antique rule) and refused post 1820 antiques entry into the top English fairs (I believe it should still be so).

But yes, French polishing didn't appear until around 1825 and padding is merely a spin-off of French polishing. The Georgians finished their furniture with wax or they brushed-on oil/spirit varnishes or on ocassions, used nothing at all. A good many Georgian antiques were subsequently padded with shellac (some were even French polished!) in the nineteenth- and twentieth-centuries through ignorance or for commercial gain.

Thankyou WW for both the detailed reasoning behind all of this. Also the quick history lesson . Having also done a little more reading on this I agree with your reasoning. I noted what you said re George 1V's short period. I also noted how he came to the throne due to his father's mental illness, under a Regency. He was an apparently extravagant man. Two questions could this also explain the use of the term Regency design for architecture and especially some of very distinct design cues. Our 1826 property is noted as being regency in design, and the mantle pieces seem to be true to such designs. Also was there a difference between the UK and Aus in the use of the term Georgan design. One other question for true Georgan furniture what exactly is the correct finish. By that I mean varnishes, oils, waxes. Do you know the nature of such products and are they available today. Am assuming likely to be so. Sorry re more questions but I am keen to learn. Thanks

I haven't encountered "Aus Georgian". I spent a couple of weeks in Tasmania some years ago and noted some splendid Georgian Architecture dating to the earliest years of settlement of the colony. As for furniture, any Georgian stuff I've seen here was imported from the mother country.

Wax and linseed oil were the earliest finishes and following trade with the East, shellac and other, vegetable resins began to gain a foot hold. These resins were variously dissolved in spirits or turpentine (and sometimes combined) to produce varnishes which were laid on with brushes before being burnished.

I know only a few people who can reliably differentiate between the various finishes and who are capable of restoring them sympathetically and, more importantly, correctly. If you come across quality Georgian furniture and aren't 100% certain what the finish is and how to proceed, please leave it alone or defer to an expert. While it might be great fun 'having a go', the chances of irreversibly damaging the piece are very real with subsequent loss in value.

To stop the rubber sticking I use a couple of drops of paraffin oil. Works a treat.