Thread: Hard wax oil

Brett, where does one purchase Stoploss bags economically? Are they available locally?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Don't know about locally Derek - I got mine from LV a few years ago. They stopped selling the collapsible bottles and got the stoploss bags instead. They're excellent.

Carbatec only have the bits that go with the bags (typical) so I'd say they don't stock them any longer. Looking at those prices I'd say they were very expensive there anyway.

AH! Here we go: Timberbits have them at 4 for $28 which is pretty good

Direct from StopLoss they are pretty cheap: 8 for USD22.40 so that's about AUD4.00 each. Postage is a bit exxy: at the PayPal checkout it says Air Service $16.90 so about AUD24.14 or $3 per bag.

I may have to contact them about a bulk lot for a Group Buy

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Going to 1500 grit may just end up burnishing the surface of the wood, and make adhesion problematic.

I meant to respond to this a while back but ended up in a time warp instead.

Perhaps that may be the case with a film finish that sit on top of the timber like polyurethane etc, but with oils they usually cross-link across the coats (the polymer chains link up as I understand it). I've never found it to be a problem with finishes peeling off. Not a scientific expert in these matters though, and these hardwax oils may behave differently to regular oils in terms of polymerising - but that would be what made it go gluggy in my 100ml sample pot, so perhaps it's similar behaviour to regular oils.

Just as a footnote to StopLoss bags: I have had Rustins Danish start to polymerise in a bag after about 2 years, so don't regard them as a silver bullet. Having said that, I have some MinWax decking oil that has been in StopLoss for 3 years (2nd Feb 2016) and it's absolutely perfect - used some just today. Just depends on the product itself.

So Timbecon have the bags and CT the bits to go with them Amazon US must have got the sandshoe from Stoploss because they no longer sell them which is a pity as they were 4 for 12USD when they did.

You mean these?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...&condition=new

I use Argon (from one of those miniature welding gas bottles) to stop my finishes developing a skin or going off, but I haven't tried it with hard wax oil yet. Total cost is about the same as the stoploss bags and it seems to go a lot further.

For those who don't know, argon is 2.5x heavier than air and is essentially non-reactive, so a shot inside a can or bottle and then putting on the lid will see the argon form a layer over the contents, keeping the air from whatever is inside even if you don't fill it completely with argon.

Originally Posted by djeddy

I use Argon (from one of those miniature welding gas bottles) to stop my finishes developing a skin or going off, but I haven't tried it with hard wax oil yet. Total cost is about the same as the stoploss bags and it seems to go a lot further.

For those who don't know, argon is 2.5x heavier than air and is essentially non-reactive, so a shot inside a can or bottle and then putting on the lid will see the argon form a layer over the contents, keeping the air from whatever is inside even if you don't fill it completely with argon.

That's a cool idea - where do you buy it and what spraying system do you attach to the bottle?

If you do prefer the collapsible bottles they are still available in 1 or 2 litresizes - albeit much more expensive than the platic bags. For example: https://www.ebay.com.au/b/Darkroom-C...e6e60dfff858a1

If your cans seal OK, Bloxygen may also be useful https://www.ardonmarine.com.au/produ...uct-preserver/

Brian

Bloxygen is argon, FWIW.

Originally Posted by qwertyu

That's a cool idea - where do you buy it and what spraying system do you attach to the bottle?

I use a small canister like this (930ml) but I got a killer deal on a different brand. Bunnings must have been running them out because I paid $8/bottle. I use the valve and hose from this kit. Inspiration struck while I was in their tools section and I wandered past their welding section. Admittedly I should perhaps use a trigger nozzle and a proper regulator but what I have does the job just fine. It's not like it's a flammable gas so I can be pretty casual about it.

Cheapest I can see is $169 for a "C" size which is 0.6m³.

You could pay just $99 for a "D" 2.1m³ at Bunnings, but then you have to give them a $200 deposit.

Bloxygen is 12 grams for $20 but I don't know what the uncompressed volume of the can is, so impossible to compare the pricing.

However, I still think that StopLoss bags for regularly used finishes would be a cheaper and more convenient method.

The new shape of SL bags looks better. Mine have a shorter length from the square shoulders to the cap, and can be a little tricky to get it right. However, I've always thought that the shoulders should be sloped up to the cap. Even on that new design I suspect that small bubbles may get trapped in the corners of the shoulders.

I sent an email to StopLoss last night about a bulk quantity, and they suggested I deal with Carbatec. I said "Not a chance" and more or less explained why. This was "enlightening" for him, and explained why he was getting so many direct sales to Australia! I will now get a price when he gets back from holidays next week.

Originally Posted by djeddy

I use a small canister like this (930ml) but I got a killer deal on a different brand. Bunnings must have been running them out because I paid $8/bottle. I use the valve and hose from this kit. Inspiration struck while I was in their tools section and I wandered past their welding section. Admittedly I should perhaps use a trigger nozzle and a proper regulator but what I have does the job just fine. It's not like it's a flammable gas so I can be pretty casual about it.

Right, that looks a bit more like it! 930ml of Argon from Bunnings for $40 + plus cost of a regulator or valve to suit a male M10 thread on the cylinder (enlarge the pic).

Its says 60 Bar pressure and contents is either 50 or 60 litres (can't read it clearly). So that's 0.05m³ which means a much higher per m³ cost of the gas BUT a much smaller entry cost to the sensibly small quantities that would be needed for our finish preservation purposes. Absolutely no point buying 2m³ just because it's there.

Is argon the standard gas for MIG welding mild steel?