Thread: Lacquer

Originally Posted by mark david

I have been a furniture restorer and cabinet maker for 25 years in England and latterly Australia and have very rarely heard the term used except by people who are not furniture makers.

I have been a Paint Chemist for most of my working life, worked in Europe, UK, US and Australia.
So not only did I use lacquers, I actually formulated them and know intimately what makes a lacquer.

Good for you.but that is not what we are talking about.

Originally Posted by mark david

Good for you.but that is not what we are talking about.

Excuse me?

The title of this thread is "lacquer", you gave an explanation of that term and subsequently backed it up with your qualifications, a furniture restorer of some 25 years experience.

I replied with my qualifications, I am not entitled to either express an explanation of the term lacquer, based on extensive experience in the paint industry, nor to back that up with my qualifications, as you did?

Never heard of lacquer ? Interesting.
No nitrocellulose lacquers?
No acid catalysed lacquers ?
No lacquer thinners?
Hmmmmm! Interesting!
Pete

Originally Posted by Pittwater Pete

Never heard of lacquer ? Interesting.
No nitrocellulose lacquers?
No acid catalysed lacquers ?
No lacquer thinners?
Hmmmmm! Interesting!
Pete

Yes Pete have heard of all of these things but If I go to a paint shop shop and ask for a litre tin of lacquer what would be the reply ?
If I wanted to buy some jarrah from a timber merchant wouldn't just ask for some wood ?

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Excuse me?

The title of this thread is "lacquer", you gave an explanation of that term and subsequently backed it up with your qualifications, a furniture restorer of some 25 years experience.

I replied with my qualifications, I am not entitled to either express an explanation of the term lacquer, based on extensive experience in the paint industry, nor to back that up with my qualifications, as you did?

Yes you are entitled but you didn't bother to do that you just stuck in a Wicki link.Which is utterly ambiguous anyway.

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Sorry, have to disagree with your description of "lacquer".

First of all, it is in fairly common use throughout the English speaking world, including here in Australia.

It describes a finish that dries by solvent evaporation, not oxidisation (rules out most oil based finishes) or cross linking.

See here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacquer

You obviously didn't read this before you quoted it

Wattyl Trade Store Wollongong, ask for Stylwood Lacquer and tell them what gloss level you want.

One thing that can be taken away from this thread is....... don't expect to find anything specialised or high end at a hardware shop....... or for that matter at a suburban paint shop.

That goes right across the board ..... they are high volume RETAIL stores, don't expect anything obscure.

Also don't expect any sort of competent advice on anything at a major chain hardware ...... 9 out of 10 they just don't know.

As for stocking Laquer thinner and not Laquer ........ laquer thinner is a comodity and has multiple uses ........ you can buy dry cleaning fluid, but don't expect to get ya dry cleaning done there.

On the matter of the Definition of the word "laquer", in the retail market the word may have become ambiguous and missued as has the word "varnish"...... but in the trade and in the craft the meaning remains clear.

A couple of things for those who have not used laquer. in particular Nitro and acrillic laquer ...... the primary reason it is used is because it is fast ... realy fast.

I use GMH Flat black ( a cheap black nitro) as a general purpose black stuff ....... in warm weather I can slash an item black, hang the spray gun up, turn around and pick the item up dry. fast real fast.

A friend of mine claims that he has seen and worked on jobs where they expect to get at least 5 coats of nitro on a piano in one day, in winter, in Melbourne ..as long as the sun is shining.

It is also very common to thin laquer in high persentages .... 30% laquer and 70% thinner is not uncommon or unreasonable.

You can thin laquers this far because of what they are .... they cure predominantly by evaporation of the solvent ...... finishes that cure by reaction generally can not be thinned anywhere near that far without compromising the bonding process of the resins.

Pollyeurathane for example mostly starts to have problems around 10% solvent .... the bond strength is reduced and clarity suffers.

As for American texts and videos ..... you have to remember they have a much larger market ..... Also remember that some of the American media is intended for people further along than your average DIY person.

Just take paint in a spray tin ...... the average person in this country would have a hard time buying anything decent in a spray tin ...... its mostly low end "jam in a can". Ya cant even get a decent colour range unless you pay thru the nose for auto touch up paint.

In the US there are products like Krylon, which is a range of spray products way beyond anything most Australians would ever see ..... In the US, Krylon and similar quality products in a spray tin are common.

Yes you can get Krylon in AUS, but you wont find it in pretty much any hardware shop.

If you are anything but a retail mug, or want to move on from being a retail mug, you need to start asking questions and looking for more information than a single word to define a finish.

Do not Rely on the word "laquer" ..... is it, old school nitro, pre-catalised nitro, Acrillic or some other base.

Then be prepared for some unconventional concepts ....... there is what is considered normal(in whatever trade you work in) .... then there are some things that are real but not conventional like in the marine world, there is a real thing called "single pack polly eurathane enamel" ..... that makes no sense to someone from the house painting industry and many hard core car refinish people will just look at you like you are stupid ...... but it is a real thing.

Also be prepared for the utter BULL$#!^, that people behind trade counters will tell you ..... sometime you have to do some work to find out the truth.

Like that joker who said the the Aerosol laquer was " acrillic enamel" ..... If it is a clear it is either Acrillic, Nitro ( or some similar) or most unlikly an oil bassed clear like enamel paint would be bassed on. ..... I'd be interested in the truth of that one.

hope this helps
cheers

You could try

Nitrocellulose clear Lacquer 400g aerosol spray can
https://www.guitaraust.com.au/finish...-aerosols.html

I have never seen either and use Wattyl Stylwood myself.

Wattyl Rediseal and4L and 20L of Wattyl Stylewood in various levels of gloss. Also available coloured.

All orderable from The Paint Place. They won't have it, but a couple of days and it's there. Ive done this 3 times with 4 and 20L cans. You also need the Magic Thinner (can't remember name) but you use hardly any and it's just for thinning a tad and cleanup)

For spaying, use guns, or Preval sprayers from StewMac, Autopro here in Aus or Amazon.

Tints, stains and non-aerosolised NC's are available from StewMac.

I've also spoken with a number of car body paint places about the problem of getting true Nitrocellulose finish. One that will blend into the previous coat and dry in minutes.... They find it baffling, but I will be honest in they have pointed me to look at several solutions they use in their industry. I'd wager the car refinishing biz is pretty sophisticated. They were like kids at Christmas showing off what can be done.

I know this, for as a test a month ago I used a basic black finish over their spray undercoat on MDF, finished in clear and then wet sanded (called rubbing out) and buffed and it shone like a million dollars. I did this as I couldn't do Japanese Laquering. I'm now finishing mdf boxes this way.

Australia is utterly impoverished in solutions for NC. I unhesitatingly purchase everything overseas.

Guitar refinishing is an incredible thing to study. These dudes absolutely push the envelope. I'm now using many of their techniques for finishing my work. It seems obvious, but visit a music shop and witness the glory of their work. It makes us woodworkers look like refinishing peasants.

Originally Posted by Evanism

Australia is utterly impoverished in solutions for NC. I unhesitatingly purchase everything overseas.

Pre-catalysed nitrocellulose lacquer and traditional lacquers based upon hydrocarbon and other volatile thinners (VOC's) are being phased out across the world because of their high solvent ratio to solids, transfer efficiency and the concerns about air pollution and tough air quality regulations. That is why HVLP is the go these days, far more efficient spray systems.

I have been using Automotive undercoat on MDF for years it seals the board and can be sanded, then sprayed with paint then sprayed with a semi gloss clear and it will dry quicker and a very nice finish.

Originally Posted by pictureman

I have been using Automotive undercoat on MDF for years it seals the board and can be sanded, then sprayed with paint then sprayed with a semi gloss clear and it will dry quicker and a very nice finish.

YEH man .... thinners bassed automotive undercoat is great on MDF ..... or pretty much any timber ...... same with automotive laquers.

BIG thing about automotive laquers ..... designed for 100% outdoor exposure.

cheers


cheers