Thread: Attn wood finish purist.

Originally Posted by Fricasseekid

I've been perusing the wood finish threads and noticed there isn't much talk of simple stain+polyurethane methods. What's the reason for this? This is the most common type of finish I'm familiar with. Is it considered a less "purist" way of doing things?

It could be that there are less things to go wrong and, after all, the instructions are on the tin.
Seriously, I doubt that purist/non-purist has anything to do with it.
cheers,
Jim

I suppose. I guess my theory is just born from the fact that a lot of people mention using all these natural sounding exotic oils and waxes.

There are always those adventurous souls who like to try exotic oils and waxes, and it can lead to problems
Cheers,
Jim

I think many people prefer a finish that shows the wood off in its natural state and without the long term 'have to sand it and refinish it' liability of polyurethane.

I like oil and wax finishes as I can just slap some more on and give it a quick rub if they start to look a bit daggy....which isn't something you can do with poly once it starts to show wear. This goes double for something like a table top which is going to cop a bit of abuse - once poly gets damaged, it's hello sandpaper!

I also prefer the smell of citrus/eucalyptus/beeswax over tolulene and all its little hydrocarbon friends! (Eucy based stuff in winter does wonders for the nose, so it's double acting!)

Originally Posted by jimbur

There are always those adventurous souls who like to try exotic oils and waxes, and it can lead to problems
Cheers,
Jim

What kind of problems?
So your a fan of polyurethane?

Originally Posted by Master Splinter

I think many people prefer a finish that shows the wood off in its natural state and without the long term 'have to sand it and refinish it' liability of polyurethane.

I like oil and wax finishes as I can just slap some more on and give it a quick rub if they start to look a bit daggy....which isn't something you can do with poly once it starts to show wear. This goes double for something like a table top which is going to cop a bit of abuse - once poly gets damaged, it's hello sandpaper!

I also prefer the smell of citrus/eucalyptus/beeswax over tolulene and all its little hydrocarbon friends! (Eucy based stuff in winter does wonders for the nose, so it's double acting!)

This makes good sense.

Originally Posted by Fricasseekid

What kind of problems?
So your a fan of polyurethane?

Exotic oils and waxes are ok as long as you stick to rubbing them on wood
My finish of choiice is french polish but it has its limitations. Big things like floors get polyurethane.
Cheers,
JIm

I guess it's a case of selecting the right finish for the right job. And knowing what the benefits/advantages are to each different type of finish... and the dis-advantages.

I like peanut butter sandwiches, but that doesn't mean I'm going to use peanut butter on every sammich I make.

Many of us spend considerable periods of time and labour on small projects and to settle for a "quick stained finish" is sort of like painting a Rolls-Royce by brush with house-paint, y'know?

Personally, I like Tung Oil as not only is it "infinitely repairable" but it tends to make any figure pop while only darkening the timber marginally, leaving a gorgeous natural look.

Then again, when I'm laying/finishing a floor, other factors come into account. Such as how much the customer is willing to pay. PolyU is my main choice then. (You know the old saying? "Quick, cheap, good. Pick two." )

Originally Posted by jimbur

Exotic oils and waxes are ok as long as you stick to rubbing them on wood
My finish of choiice is french polish but it has its limitations. Big things like floors get polyurethane.
Cheers,
JIm

Well, they may not be good for all types of wood...

Polyurethane is like an egg shell; it performs respectably until it's damaged.

Any finish that doesn't require maintenance shouldn't be used on wood IMO. Take some of the modern lacquers for instance; they turn decent wood into Formica! Well, for the first five or ten years and after that it's all land fill.

Shellac has been used on floors since its discovery and it's one of the best floor finishes... if you're prepared to maintain it. An oil finish would also be an excellent choice for floors, but again, would require periodic attention.

Attempting to impermeably seal wood is a waste of effort as wood will do exactly what it wants and make a mockery of any 'perfect' film finish. A better approach to protecting and enhancing wood is to apply a finish (actually, that's really a redundant word because you're never really 'finished' with wood coatings) that is easily maintained.

Varnishes, unless of the long oil variety, are unlikely to remain intact and seal wood against the ingress of moisture and dirt, but long oil varnishes offer little protection against abrasion and damage. Knocks equal cracks in hard varnishes which wick in moisture and there's the finish and appearance gone! You can't win.

Plain, or slightly modified oil finishes are maintainable/repairable, as is shellac in all its forms.

One finish not mentioned yet is lacquer which I believe gives an excellent result if applied correctly. Huge problem for most though due to needing a booth or safe area to spray before you even discuss any other complications.

I settle for a Maloof style finish on most of my projects for several reasons.
Easy to apply, safe, no special equipment needed, no problems with contamination from dust etc, easy to repair/refinish and you are actually touching the wood when you run your hand over it or pick it up.
Rubbing it out can be energetic but you get out what you put in.

It's not the only finish out there but for amateur sawdust producers it is probably one of the best options out there.

Originally Posted by Woodwould

Lots of very good stuff.

I agree 100% with Woodwould on this. Any attempt to create a "bulletproof" surface will eventually result in disappointment.

My finish of choice is danish oil (and in particular a local product that is simply made up of tung oil, vege turps and driers). Easy to apply, looks good and easy to repair.

Most people involved in a woodworking forum seem to like the natural oils and waxes because they look great and highlight the character of timber. As they're enthusiasts they don't mind that oils and waxes aren't very durable and need to be constantly maintained. In fact they probably enjoy rubbing their wood.

Shellac is good too - if you've got your technique down, don't mind an orange finish and won't ever get your timber wet.

Varnish is the most durable, easy to apply coating. Which accounts for why the shelves of hardware stores are packed with it. Does tinting a varnish with a stain have it's place? Only if you're after a mild tint. If you want deep colour, apply a spirit based stain directly to the timber and then apply a topcoat. Applying too much stain into a varnish will reduce the transparency of the mix and muddy the grain.

Originally Posted by StuartMcC

Shellac is good too - if you've got your technique down, don't mind an orange finish and won't ever get your timber wet.

Orange is only one of the colours of shellac; there's also clear/white, garnet, button etc.

How wet do you like your furniture to be? Do you slosh water over your oiled/varnished/lacquered furniture? I eat off a table that's finished with shellac and it gets wiped over with a wet cloth morning and evening. If you want a water resistant shellac finish, it's quite simple to modify the shellac or just buy some of U-Beaut's hard shellac.

If you regularly wipe down a scratched or dented varnished table with a wet cloth, the varnish will delaminate in a very short time.

Originally Posted by StuartMcC

Varnish is the most durable, easy to apply coating. Which accounts for why the shelves of hardware stores are packed with it.

All the manufacturers tell you that their varnish is easy to apply and it is, but getting good results is more difficult than with just about any other finish. If you're happy with a wrinkled, dust-nibbed, streaky appearance straight from the can, then yes, varnish is just the product for you. To obtain a decent finish with varnish involves slaving for days between coats, sanding, drying, more coating, more sanding and buffing.

The reason the shelves of hardware stores are packed with cans of varnish is twofold:

1. It's idiot proof – to a degree.
2. The instructions on the side of the can (1.Open can with screwdriver. 2. Brush varnish on. 3. Maaaaaybe sand between coats. 4. Try and wash brush.) look far less complicated to the average Joe than the instructions on the side of the bottle of poncy I'm-sure-I-need-to-learn-to-French-polish-first shellac.