Thread: Traditional wax, EEE ultra shine

Hey Andy,

Great questions, I will be following this Thread with Interest, as I have no idea about the EEE ploish and wax, Maybe we should be trying to get a copy of Neil's "the Polishers Handbook," that people are always quoting on this Site.

HazzaB

Originally Posted by HazzaB

Hey Andy,

Great questions, I will be following this Thread with Interest, as I have no idea about the EEE ploish and wax, Maybe we should be trying to get a copy of Neil's "the Polishers Handbook," that people are always quoting on this Site.

HazzaB

Yes I think I will - sounds very informative.
I just think you spend so many hours making something, that you don't wont to spoil it with a poor finish.

If you google it, you will find information that will give you some indication of what it does. But i'm just confused as to the finishes I use and how I can incorporate the ultra shine and traditional wax with my oil finishes.

I'm also looking forward to see what people have to say.

Andy

Originally Posted by groeneaj

Danish Oil - Boxes
- Sand up to 1200-1500
- Apply coat of EEE- ultra shine and buff with swansdown mop (hoping to give a finish of 4-5000 grit)
- wait for it to dry (24 hours???)
- apply 2-3 coats of danish oil as per instructions, 24 hours apart
- wait a few weeks then apply traditional wax and buff with swansdown mop

OK. EEE is basically Tripoli powder in a paste form. And yes, it gives you an absolutely bee-yew-tee-ful finish.

But there is NO "waiting for it to dry."

You apply it. (Be warned: A little bit goes a long way!) You buff it off. Let me repeat: you buff it ALL off. It's not a finish, there should be no remaining residue. Keep buffing until no more colour comes off the wood.

Then move on to the next step... as you've removed all the EEE there's nothing to "dry" before applying the actual finish.

It's also very versatile stuff. If you've ever applied a gloss finish to something and then sat back and thought "Uhoh! Too shiny!" then you can break out the EEE and give it a buff, to cut it back to a more satin finish.

Excellent reply - thankyou.

So the actual point of applying is to basically prepare the surface for your finish? For me that Danish oil and traditional wax,

would it also work with hard burnishing oil given that your wet sanding?

Hadn't seen this thread before but below is my reply to a pm from groeneaj:

______________________________________

Never use steel wool with EEE as the finest steel wool is way courser than the EEE.

You can only use the Shellawax products or a wax over EEE. However you can use the EEE over pretty well any other finish.

As for using EEE or Trad wax over Danish or any other finish. They will both bring up a higher shine but must not be used until the oil or any other finish used has finished off-gassing i.e.there is no smell coming from the finish. If there is the wax will not go hard and may also stop the oil from drying properly and it's possible the whole thing will need to be stripped and redone.

______________________________________

Adding to the pm now......

Apply the EEE and with the same bit of rag rub and rub and rub - better still, buff it with a Swansdown Mop. The more you buff the higher the shine as the EEE breaks down but continues to cut as it does, The more you rub the more it breaks down and the brighter the shine will become. Always buff off any remaining wax with clean soft cloth turning it regularly.

To cut the shine on a finish apply the EEE with a light rubbing action and wipe it off without the continual buffing. Then remove all traces of te wax.

If you try to apply anything other than Shellawax or another wax product you will most likely fail as the minute amount of wax left behind is extremely tenacious and will drive many finishes off the timber or may make them fail at a later date.

Back to steel wool for a second, before going to bed. Steel wool is made for use on metal and other hard surfaces. Not for use on raw wood. You can use it over a finish or as an abrasive to finish off a stripping job but it really shouldn't ever be used in finishing or as an abrasive on raw timber other than above.

It can be quite dangerous in a number of ways, including reacting with tannin in timber and setting up black spots on the surface, splintering and cutting skin and in the worst case scenario amputation of a digit, which has happened, given the right circumstances, like using it with Danish Oil steel wwool may spontaneously combust and if it does it isn't all that easy to extinguish.

OK that's it for me..... Time to hit the sack.

Cheers - Neil

Originally Posted by ubeaut

You can only use the Shellawax products or a wax over EEE.
[...]
If you try to apply anything other than Shellawax or another wax product you will most likely fail as the minute amount of wax left behind is extremely tenacious and will drive many finishes off the timber or may make them fail at a later date.

Hmmm... this would go a long way to explaining why I've occasionally (about 5% of the time) had problems with DO going patchy, taking a lot of effort to build up. :thinks:

So are you exaggerating slightly there Neil, or have I been rather... fortunate?

Thanks for taking the time out to reply Neil

Could you use a hard burnishing oil on top of eee?

Probably not quite as bif a problem with some oils as turpentine is the thinner used in EEE, so the oils will have also act as a thinner to some extent and should penetrate any of the minute amount of wax left on the surface.

DO has more solids in it (by way of polyurethane) and may not be quite as forgiving. but any surface coating like poly, varnish, lacquer, flowpack, etc, etc will most likely have a problem because of the wax. Will react a little like there is silicone on the timber but using silicone retarder or fisheye drops, etc won't help as it's wax NOT silicone

EEE is made to be compatible with our Shellawax range and was designed to be used under under Shellawax our Shithot Waxtik and Traditional Wax at the same basic wax formula is used as a base for all of these products and this is what makes them all compatible. However because it has a bax base it can also be used under pretty much any wax only finish.

In short use it under Shellawax or wax and over almost anything else.

I also recommend that EEE not be under Shellawax on pens.

Hope this makes the DO flow more evenly.

Cheers

Could you use a hard burnishing oil on top of eee?

Use all Organoil product exactly as per their instructions. Don't use it over anything else unless they say so. Organoil has spent a lot of time on making their products work the way tthey should and have detailed it all on their info sheets. If you deviate from their instructions aven slightly then you won't get the right result.

If it's of any help Organoil have been experimenting with our Water Dyes under their Danish Oil with excellent results and after trying many different products, it's now their only recommended way of colouring under DO.

Cheers

Originally Posted by ubeaut

Probably not quite as bif a problem with some oils as turpentine is the thinner used in EEE, so the oils will have also act as a thinner to some extent and should penetrate any of the minute amount of wax left on the surface.

DO has more solids in it (by way of polyurethane) and may not be quite as forgiving. but any surface coating like poly, varnish, lacquer, flowpack, etc, etc will most likely have a problem because of the wax. Will react a little like there is silicone on the timber but using silicone retarder or fisheye drops, etc won't help as it's wax NOT silicone

EEE is made to be compatible with our Shellawax range and was designed to be used under under Shellawax our Shithot Waxtik and Traditional Wax at the same basic wax formula is used as a base for all of these products and this is what makes them all compatible. However because it has a bax base it can also be used under pretty much any wax only finish.

In short use it under Shellawax or wax and over almost anything else.

I also recommend that EEE not be under Shellawax on pens.

Hope this makes the DO flow more evenly.

Cheers

I know a few pen turners use EEE under a Shellawax glow finish on pens, why is this not reccommended?

As for using anything under hard burnishing oil, I agree, just use the oil and follow the instructions, the whole process is designed to get a specific finish, altering the format can lead to finishing problems.

Ok so finishing with Danish oil will go like this
- sand to 1500
- apply Danish oil as per instruction (2-3 coats)
-wait a few weeks for oil to "de-gas"
-apply eee then buff with swansdown mop
-apply traditional wax then buff with swansdown mop

You got it, groeneaj

Originally Posted by Paulphot

I know a few pen turners use EEE under a Shellawax glow finish on pens, why is this not reccommended?

snip

The EEE picks up the metal from the mandrel and turns the timber black.

Originally Posted by

The EEE picks up the metal from the mandrel and turns the timber black.

Also leaves that minute amount of wax in the timber and for something that's being handled constantly I find it best to not add anything that could cause a problem, so sand to 1500 or above then 1 coat of Shellawax or Shellawax Glow which will basically be burned into the timber, follow this with another 2 coats (more if you like) which will give a good surface coating that will stand up to more wear and tear, acid sweat and almost anything else that's thrown at it.

For the same reason I do not recommend using Shellawax Cream on pens or other items which are constantly being handled like pepper mills, etc. The cream has a far greater wax content which makes for a softer finish not only physically softer but also a slightly softer appearance. This softer finish may be easier to damage with long term handling.

Ok so finishing with Danish oil will go like this
- sand to 1500 Only finish to 1500 if that is what the instructions with the DO say.
- apply Danish oil exactly as per instruction (2-3 coats)
-wait a few weeks for oil to "de-gas" I'd wait even longer. Possibly as long as a month or more. I don't trust oils to do exactly what it expected of them
-apply eee then buff with swansdown mop Sounds about right
-apply traditional wax then buff with swansdown mop ONLY if needed

Whatever you do, don't jump in boots and all and do it on an 8 x4 dining table. Try it on scrap timber first to avoid tears later.

Cheers