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Thread: 7 Course Renaissance Lute
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3rd July 2009, 07:07 PM #31Retired
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7 Course Renalssance Lute
Hi Martin, I have also been watching this build on the ANZLF.
Much better photos on that site.
Stu puts good photos up on here don't do what he is using.
But never mind I will switch between forums.
Cheers Bob
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3rd July 2009 07:07 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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4th July 2009, 01:56 PM #32Lute maker and Artist
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Hello Martin, I have finished lesson two on the baroque lute mould. I noticed you said you completely built a new mould becuase you weren't satisfied with mould one. My first effort is ok but some of the cross pieces don't quite fit. David Van Edwards knows this happens always and suggests re-doing a few. I am inclined to start on another mould completely especially now I have it down to a fine art. Is this what prompted you to do likewise? What do you think? Cheers, Robert
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4th July 2009, 02:55 PM #33Retired
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G'Day Robert, Check out Australian and New Zealand Luthier Forum.
Martin is also showing his build on that forum with more photos than is on this forum, Its good to go between both forums.
Regards Bob
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4th July 2009, 04:00 PM #34
Hi Robert,
On my first mold I shaped the ribs using a disc sanding machine and the facets on the ribs werent perfect. On the second attempt I photocopied the rib plans and stuck them onto the MDF before cutting them out and then hand shaping with a plane and sanding sticks. The result was more accurate.
If the mold isnt accurate then youre going to have problems making the lute ribs fit together properly.
For the templates for cutting the lute ribs I also photocopied the plan and stuck the photocopies onto 3mm MDF before cutting out.
Cheers MartinWhatever note you blow youre never more than a semitone away from the correct one....(Miles Davis)
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4th July 2009, 08:15 PM #35Lute maker and Artist
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4th July 2009, 08:35 PM #36
Best way is to take the plans to a copying firm and get full size copies made. I made do with an A3 copier and made copies of half a rib per copy and stuck them together. I was,lucky as the copier I used was fairly accurate and didnt change size of templates. if youre going to do copying then id make sure you copy ALL your plans on the same machine....preferably on the same day.
Right now Ive run into a slight problem with rib number 3. The template doesnt fit well around the butt of the mold. Im currently making up another template. Its important once youve finished your mold to check the templates fit the mold...some will need a bit of modification. This is mentioned in van Andrews tutorials.Whatever note you blow youre never more than a semitone away from the correct one....(Miles Davis)
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5th July 2009, 07:17 PM #37Lute maker and Artist
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Thanks for the tip Bob. I've joined that forum as well and it looks good. It a bit challenging though for one who plays renaissance and baroque lutes to be trying my hand at making one. The renaissance lute I played was the one I made and the baroque (now gone) I bought years ago from Migma in the old East Germany. They still have a web site I believe and make all kinds of instruments. I will pick up your billet tomorrow and give you an opinion. Robert
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5th July 2009, 08:03 PM #38
Hi Robert,
Yesterday was disaster with rib no 3...the thing wouldnt fit tightly against rib 1 no matter how much I trimmed and shaped the thing. I gave up and got a good nights sleep and then started back on it today after a long bike ride.
I re-read Van Andrew's tutorial and noted his comments on recreating gaps seen on the mold on the planing board. I tried this approach and got a better fit..not perfect but I decided Id spent enough time on the problem and wasnt looking for perfection. The lesson learnt was to do as van Andrew suggests and make up and fit two adjacent ribs at a time.....the one youre about to glue up and the next one as well.
Cheers MartinWhatever note you blow youre never more than a semitone away from the correct one....(Miles Davis)
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6th July 2009, 10:41 PM #39
Five ribs glued in...6 to go. Having to watch a tendancy for ribs to "flare" out from the mold around the a**e end of same. The Tutorial instructs to use Sellotape for holding ribs on during glue up but Im finding the Aussie Sellotape isnt worth a **** and Stewmac binding tape does a much better job.
Whatever note you blow youre never more than a semitone away from the correct one....(Miles Davis)
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7th July 2009, 08:55 AM #40Lute maker and Artist
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I had some thoughts while taking a shower. The Lute I made forty years ago was constructed with a sense of adventure and risk taking, perhaps because I was in my "out-there" early twenties. I has no plans to refer to and picked up what I could. The mould was made of solid chipboard with rough marks for where ribs would sit. I fitted each rib as I went on both sides of the centre and adjusted the last two on either side (the same width) at the soundboard to make up for previous rib errors.
It worked, and from memory, there were few problems and in the end it was the sound that mattered. I played that Lute in a few concerts in Melbourne. I wish I knew where the instrument was - if anyone knows tell me about it
So I now approach my early stages of making the mould with an openness to discovery and a reminder that no original moulds for Lutes exist so we cannot exactly know how they were constructed and how much improvisation existed. The lute repertoire was enormous especially in the renaissance (mostly anon) so Lutes must have been quite common and I'm sure many were not perfect.
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7th July 2009, 10:06 AM #41
I agree Robert,
Im sure you are familiar with Lundberg's excellent book "Historical Lute Making". For me there were a couple of take out points, the first was "close enuff" ie there is no gain after a point in chasing perfection and second was that there are no straight lines except for the strings!
I think also that we have long been influenced by factory made instruments and dont have a real feel for hand made instruments until we start making them. But the workmanship I have seen in survivng instruments is usually superb. Guess thats what happens when you do it for a living."We must never become callous. When we experience the conflicts ever more deeply we are living in truth. The quiet conscience is an invention of the devil." - Albert Schweizer
My blog. http://theupanddownblog.blogspot.com
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7th July 2009, 10:46 AM #42Lute maker and Artist
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Thank-you. I'm not familiar with the book at all but I may search for it. Actually the only musical instrument I have ever made was that Lute 40 years ago. I made it then because I couldn't afford to buy one. To me it is about the sound it makes, after all it is mostly for playing music, but also must look asthetically pleasing.
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7th July 2009, 11:10 AM #43Lute maker and Artist
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I did find the book and for a good price from Stewart Mac... There were some very expensive used ones but of course I avoided them. I agree with you about the superb workmanship but blemishes are not uncommon in brilliant work. There is a difference, and perfection is rarely an art form. In hand knotted Persian rugs I understand there is always a blemish (sometimes deliberate because only Allah is perfect - it is said in Islam I believe).
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7th July 2009, 11:42 AM #44
and in Zen influenced art as well.
"We must never become callous. When we experience the conflicts ever more deeply we are living in truth. The quiet conscience is an invention of the devil." - Albert Schweizer
My blog. http://theupanddownblog.blogspot.com
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8th July 2009, 12:05 PM #45Lute maker and Artist
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Hello Martin, This is a reply to an earlier message because I'm still thereabouts on my lute mould. I have remade the plan and will now remake the spine and X pieces to see if I get a better fit. I am sure the plan is right now and I will take great care to get the spine and X pieces accurate. If no then well it will just have to do. I am keen to get carving and working on the Lute proper. It is all a good learning experience anyway.
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