Thread: 7 Course Renaissance Lute

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

Hi Robert,

The mold doesnt have to be perfect....just try and get the rib sections glued in square to the central rib and also make sure you leave a few mm spare between the edge of each rib and the outside edge of the base. Once you finish gluing up the mold ribs you bevel the edge of the base to match the angle of the lower rib facet. Its all explained fairly clearly in the tutorial.

I cut the central spine slightly outside the line and then did final shaping once the ribs were glued in.....IMO this leaves more allowance for error in glue in of the ribs.

One area where I didnt follow the instructions properly was checking the shape of the ribs once glued in with the flexible ruler. Getting this right would have prevented a few problems I had later on getting rib edges to match the facets on the mold.

One other important thing...dont cut all your ribs out at once. Just cut out the rib youre about to glue in along with the next adjacent rib.

Looking forward to seeing some progress pics of your build. Im off to work for the next three weeks so therell be no progress on my lute till I get back.

Cheers Martin

Thanks Martin. That's really helpful. I think the plans and notes for the baroque Lute may be slightly different to the renaissance ones. So you cut the spine a little larger and trimmed back later - have I got that right? My problem seems to be some of the X pieces are higher than the spine when I allow a mm inside the base plan edge (to be bevelled off later). Anyway tomorrow I will cut out a new spine as accurately as possible and leave a little extra (as you say)... I am at least satisfied with the plan piece and some of the X pieces work... I will post a photo when I have something. I think I am also getting used to woodworking tools again after a huge absence. I am confident and passionate about the task at least and that provides some drive. Cheers, Robert

Originally Posted by zendozendo

So you cut the spine a little larger and trimmed back later - have I got that right? My problem seems to be some of the X pieces are higher than the spine when I allow a mm inside the base plan edge (to be bevelled off later).

Yes, I cut the central spine a few mm outside the line and did final shaping once ribs were glued in.

For some reason I found that when gluing in the mold rib sections it was easiest to trim the rib end adjacent to the rib first and get the rib a few mm inside the outside edge of the base. Once I got that right I then trimmed the base end of each rib gradually lowering it until the top of the rib was on the line defining the top of the central spine. The important thing is to make sure that each pair of ribs meet the central spine at the same height.

Something else I did which differs from the tutorial. I started by gluing the spine onto the base and then glued in the bracing batten before cutting out the central section of the base. I left part of the base intact where it contacts the central spine. This then allowed me to accurately shape the rib sections making sure they sat square to the central spine before doing final shaping of the ribs. I used Titebond for gluing up the mold but in hindsight it would have been better to use hot hide glue....the tack and setting time are so much faster than Titebond...perfect for joints where you cant clamp up but must rely on holding the joint secure with your hand for duration of glue tack time.

Hello Martin, How is the geology trip going? I am confident now, with your help and a bit more time, that my mould will finally be done this week-end. I have a question though. David mentions, as you do as well, that the X pieces should sit 1 mm inside the edge of the plan so the edge can be planed off later... does this also apply to the solid X pieces eg number 1 then 8.9 and 10? This is assuming the renaissance lute mould has the same number of X pieces as the baroque... I hope you can help because on the week-end I will need to make this decision... my thinking is that the solid pieces should also sit insede by about 1 mm. Thanks, Robert

Hi Robert,

Trip is going ok but am very busy.

Answers to your queries:

1. Each of sections 8,9 and 10 (the three rear most sections that get glued together) have their front sides (side towards neck) flush with the outside edge of the base while their rear sides protrude out from the edge of the base. The overhang gets removed when you shape the sections. There should be a picture in the tutorial of the rear end of the mold straight after these sections have been glued in (prior to shaping) which shows this.

2. Section 1/1A ends up with front of the section protruding out from edge of base and rear of the section flush with the base. Again look at the photo where VA is starting to shape that section.

When it comes to shaping the sections make sure you're using a really sharp paring chisel and be prepared to sharpen it a few times during the process. Sanding sticks are also handy for final dressing of the surfaces.

Cheers Martin

Hi Robert, It is good to see that Martin is be'ing such a great help to you,its a small world. I can not help but wonder if there is anyone else within Australia building a lute.
Cheers Bob

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

Hi Robert,

Trip is going ok but am very busy.

Answers to your queries:

1. Each of sections 8,9 and 10 (the three rear most sections that get glued together) have their front sides (side towards neck) flush with the outside edge of the base while their rear sides protrude out from the edge of the base. The overhang gets removed when you shape the sections. There should be a picture in the tutorial of the rear end of the mold straight after these sections have been glued in (prior to shaping) which shows this.

2. Section 1/1A ends up with front of the section protruding out from edge of base and rear of the section flush with the base. Again look at the photo where VA is starting to shape that section.

When it comes to shaping the sections make sure you're using a really sharp paring chisel and be prepared to sharpen it a few times during the process. Sanding sticks are also handy for final dressing of the surfaces.

Cheers Martin

Thanks again Martin, I have very little time to spend on it at the moment but I'm taking a couple of weeks off to get more done. I appreciate you quick responde as it means I can get down to the workshop for a couple of hours finally fitting these pieces together.
The photos on the baroque lute are not all that clear. I know that the hollow X pieces need to leave a little to be planed off because the ribs (the photo of david's is clear here) do not meet the soundboard entirely at 90 degrees but was unsure about whether the same was for the solid pieces 1 and 8,9 & 10. Now from what you say these pieces can have one edge on the line and the other inside whereas the hollow ones 2-7 are slighlty inside ... To express it another way I wasn't sure, and it wasn't clear in David's notes if ["the 8,9 and 10 (the three rear most sections that get glued together) have their front sides (side towards neck) flush with the outside edge of the base (or a mm or so inside) while their rear sides protrude out from the edge of the base"] . You have clarified that brilliantly and because you have the mould done it is so useful. Also I am doing what you say about cutting down the spine and even the plan (base) piece later after it is all assembled. While taking a rest from the long patient journey I picked up my three instruments (not all at one time) Classical Guitar, Martin Acoustic and Windsor Banjo... such a joy ... Cheers, Robert

Originally Posted by woodturner777

Hi Robert, It is good to see that Martin is be'ing such a great help to you,its a small world. I can not help but wonder if there is anyone else within Australia building a lute.
Cheers Bob

Good on ya Bob... your billet sits awaiting my attention but it sure looks good... and thanks for the introductions to the forums.... cheers, Robert

Originally Posted by zendozendo

I know that the hollow X pieces need to leave a little to be planed off because the ribs (the photo of david's is clear here) do not meet the soundboard entirely at 90 degrees

Hi Robert,

The hollow mold ribs end up with the edge nearest the rim of the base being 1-2mm INSIDE the rim. Once you finish gluing up the ribs youll plane the side of the base to match the angle of the lowest facet on each mold rib.....you shouldnt be taking anything off the mold rib pieces. Note that when you start putting on your lute ribs they only contact with one edge of the flat facets of the mold ribs.

Sorry I cant supply any pics to illustrate....am a long way from the workshop right now.

Cheers Martin

Slow progress on the lute. Got back from last hitch at work and came down with a stinker cold. The ribs got glued in..all 11 of them and the body came out of the mould and the end liner has been bent up and glued in.

G'Day Martin,
I have another customer who is interested in building a lute, but I do not understand her requirements can you help as it dont make sense to me.
this is what she requires.
Shell 1000 wide, drop top 700mm, bridge 700mm or more 500mm wide 500mm in height, what is she building.?
Cheers Bob

Hi there Bob,

The dimensions look a bit weird for a lute. The shell of a lute is made up of ribs..always an odd number commonly between 11 and 13. Each rib is roughly 75mm wide and around 600mm in length. I guess laying out the ribs side by side you might get a total width of just short of a metre. Traditionally lute makers would cut all the ribs from the same flitch. I think you recently supplied Robert with sides cut from the one flitch.

For my current build I used standard IRW guitar side sets (100mm wide)....I got at least 3 ribs out of each set.....down to 2 per set for the thicker ribs closer to the rim of the body.

For the top the best wood to use is European or Englemann spruce. Lute tops are worked very thin so the wood has to be light and stiff. I'm using Lutz spruce on my instrument.

The bridge dimensions sound way out. A lute bridge is a very basic affair.....a 20mm x 20mm x 200mm blank of pear wood would give you plenty of stock to work with.

If you want a good idea of dimensions of components of a lute then check out Lundberg's book "Historical Lute Construction".

Cheers Martin

Originally Posted by woodturner777

G'Day Martin,
I have another customer who is interested in building a lute, but I do not understand her requirements can you help as it dont make sense to me.
this is what she requires.
Shell 1000 wide, drop top 700mm, bridge 700mm or more 500mm wide 500mm in height, what is she building.?
Cheers Bob

Thanks Martin, I will ask her to check your reply in the forum.
Best regards
Bob

Hello Martin and welcome back to the land of the living lute makers.... I quickly checked your photos and congratulations, looks fabulous... mine is stalled a bit with illness and other things on the go... I hope to at least get down to the chaotic workshop and build myself a new workbench... I have shifted the workshop to a much more pleasant and very light spot under the house.. I will post when I have something to post ...By the way my wife and I are going to NZ for two weeks late October.. into Christchurch and as a sideline going to a Celtic Festival in Dunedin.... a singer I like called Tim O'Brian will be there... badly needing a holiday.... cheers, Robert

Robert,

You should try and pop out to Canterbury University and see Nick O from the ANZLF forum. He lurks in the Chemistry Department. PM him on the ANZLF forum and Im sure hed love to meet up with you. Graham Wardrop is in Christchurch as well and on the same forum.

Cheers Martin