Thread: Aussie wood for electric guitars

Originally Posted by simso

Nobus, in regards to your original question, the wood selection for an electric guitar is really irrelevant, you can use plywood if you really want and paint it.

Wood selection however is really importamt on acoustics violins etc

I have a friend named newton who would disagree with you.

If you set up an experiment with a machine plucking your strings repeatably and a spectrum analyser and change parameters on a solid body electric guitar EVERYTHING makes a measureable difference. The only debate is whether the changes are discernable to the human ear.

If what you said was true most guitar manufacturers would use plywood and save themselves some money. Leo fender would most certainly have gone that way.

I am not suggesting a ply guitar would sound awful, depends on what your trying to achieve.

Whilst Im very scientific and agree with newtons laws of physics, I would disagree that it makes any significant difference that you or I could hear.

Leo fender never used it becuase when he introduced guitars on the market they were budget priced and designed so unskilled labourers could assemble them, example when he shipped all of his manufacturing down to mexico.

There is going to be more of a difference generated by putting another 30 turns of wire on the pickup, or changing the capacitor or to that end changing the strings or the player before you would hear any noticeable difference on an electric guitar

Be a great marketing disaster for the big companies if they had to try and sell them with a spin example a solid plywood guitar compared to a solid maple body, this is primarily the reason big brand name companies dont do it.

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

I thought wood selection was relevant,must be purely for aesthetics then,Cheers

Thats strange simso, many of the luthiers I've spoken to ( especially in the area of electric instruments) will tell you that the tone of an electric guitar comes from many variables, the base of which are, pickups, amp, strings, and for resonance and playability wood. If I were to put the same pickups on a piece of painted plywood as on a piece of blackwood, and use the same amp and strings, the difference in tone, resonance and sustain would be huge. I do agree that some parts don't really affect tone etc, such as fretboard (playability) and for instance the top on a les Paul (aesthetics) but from all the information I have gathered, and personal experience, the wood used in the body is one of the key points and Carefull selection is vital .

Originally Posted by wileyc007

If I were to put the same pickups on a piece of painted plywood as on a piece of blackwood, and use the same amp and strings, the difference in tone, resonance and sustain would be huge. .

Unfortunatley thats the misconception out there, there is very little difference when using an electric guitar, The string mereley vibrates in a magnetic field, that vibration generates a thing called eddy currents ( process called inductive reactance) that induced electromagnetic current is the signal thats passed onto the amplifier. In no way has the wood selection come into any play in this situation at all.

Problem with most luthiers is they dont understand electronics just wood (and yes I am a luthier) I repair violins guitars banjos ect. Wood selection is very critical when using a chamber to create the resonating sound from a non amplified vibrating string, hence why on an acoustic we fit sound chambers, bass boards etc. all ways to manipulate that vibration and resonance

Ok simso, I think we will have to agree to disagree on some points, yes the pickups will mainly affect tone, string gauge affects sustain, but I will maintain that there is a difference in the resonance of the wood used that can be heard in an electric guitar. But on almost everything else I would agree. For instance in an acoustic instrument doesn't the density of the wood affect how the string vibrates, with the resonant characteristics of the wood enhancing or detecting from this ? The reason I ask this question is if the vibration is affected by the wood, then it would definatly affect how the pickups react to the string. I'm sure we could discuss the subject in great detail all day, and in no way do I mean any disrespect and I'm sure I will have many more questions in the future, cheers.

Originally Posted by wileyc007

Ok simso, I think we will have to agree to disagree on some points, yes the pickups will mainly affect tone, string gauge affects sustain, but I will maintain that there is a difference in the resonance of the wood used that can be heard in an electric guitar. But on almost everything else I would agree. For instance in an acoustic instrument doesn't the density of the wood affect how the string vibrates, with the resonant characteristics of the wood enhancing or detecting from this ? The reason I ask this question is if the vibration is affected by the wood, then it would definatly affect how the pickups react to the string. I'm sure we could discuss the subject in great detail all day, and in no way do I mean any disrespect and I'm sure I will have many more questions in the future, cheers.

Being a tap tuning geek I would challenge anyone to grab an electric guitar in a playing position, ie hand wrapped around the neck, body resting on the thigh or pelvis and get a meaningful booinng from the timber. Even the most carefully selected timbers lovingly crafted into the perfect instrument are subject to this restraint. Its why violinists use chin rests and you see cage like back additions on some Mandolins and even double backs in some guitars. Its why classical players hold their instruments with neck up and with the back mostly off the body.

The resonance in the timber used soundboards of acoustic instruments is a combination of the timber itself and the way it is shaped, braced etc. Density isnt a key indicator, stiffness is much better but there is mojo as well. Spruce, Western Red Cedar, Yellow Cedars etc are inherently preferred. They are just more suited. Bracing is another big factor too much or too little or in the wrong spot and it wont be as good as it can. Other factors include stiffness of the neck, size of body cavity, neck angle and string break angle. Its a big subject.

That argument will go on till the end of time.
For what its worth, i know my Gibson 1974 tobacco LP custom which is mahogany, doesnt sound as good as my "cough" 1979 Hondo II LP 26 lam ply body, ive changed the pickups around many a time, the Hondo ply job is distinctively better sounding and is way more resonant, right through to the head stock!
These days, one of the first things people are interested in is what kind of wood its made of. Over the 35 years of buying and selling numerous guitars, ive never bought a guitar for what timber its made of, 50% of the times the better quality wood never played part in my purchase, it was usually the question asked after ive finished playing it.

Im none the wiser after all these years but my first impressions are what it sounds like, plays like and usually if it plays unreal, a not so good looking guitar becomes a thing of beauty after time. And pretty much like a cricket bat, where and how big the sweet spot is, this has made a huge difference as to weather ive bought it or not. Some sweet spots vary from the bridge to the neck pickup, i belive this plays a huge factor on how resonant the guitar will be, i dont know how or why but i know when its good! Its something thats rarely touched upon. What do you all think?

Greg

Originally Posted by damian

If you set up an experiment with a machine plucking your strings repeatably and a spectrum analyser and change parameters on a solid body electric guitar EVERYTHING makes a measureable difference. The only debate is whether the changes are discernable to the human ear.

The test wouldn't be that useful unless you also tested the relative importance of each factor....ie is the choice of woods more important or less important than the choice of pickups?

My thoughts on the matter.....choice of wood has less influence on the sound of a solid body electric guitar than the electrics.

Originally Posted by damian

If what you said was true most guitar manufacturers would use plywood and save themselves some money. Leo fender would most certainly have gone that way.

In Leo Fender's day solid wood was probably about the same price as plywood.....and asthetically it looked better.

Originally Posted by wileyc007

string gauge affects sustain,

What about density of neck wood? It certainly influences sustain on acoustic guitars.

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

In Leo Fender's day solid wood was probably about the same price as plywood.....and asthetically it looked better.

It was probably cheaper. Id say if it was cheap and was easy to work with it got the thumbs up and it just so happened that it sounded good and now a big factor to the Fender sound.

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

What about density of neck wood? It certainly influences sustain on acoustic guitars.

Quite true, a point I had not touched on, as I said in previous posts the variables (some major, some minuscule) that affect tone, sustain and resonance are in the thousands, I was just trying to highlight a couple of the major ones for the sake of the debate. As others have also posted, this debate could go on till the end of time itself, the key point is that you are happy with the sound you make, and the feel or playability of the instrument. Feeling and phrasing in your playing is probably the biggest factor that hasn't been mentioned. Playing at lightning fast speed for example without feeling or phrasing is just a demonstration of how fast you can play scales in my honest opinion, when you listen to a guitarist who plays with a bit of feeling, it shows, they each have their unique sound, a sound that after the first couple of notes you can identify the guitarist. So its as much down to the player as well as what he/she uses. I once read a quote that said " start a fire with your enthusiasm, and people will come for miles to watch you burn" so all in all, each to their own, let's play with matches cheers

Originally Posted by wileyc007

... the key point is that you are happy with the sound you make....

Fair enough but I like to go one step further and discover what factors are responsible for that sound...and how one can control same. Unless you at least think about such matters then you cant really call yourself anything more than a maker of guitar shaped objects.

Very interesting thoughts and process's, lets first step aside from acoustic as there is no comparison of this debate in this situation

In know way is there going to be any resonance being created and transferred into the amp, remember we are talking an electrically generated sound, the sound generated is solely by the amount of vibration of the string in a magnetic field, you can shout yell scream your head of next to the guitar which is going to create even more resonance than your infering and in no way is it being transferred to your amp. I would even argue, that in a measureablle entity that the difference the wood selection makes for an electric could not even be measured with todays technology, thats how inconsiquential of a difference it makes.

However solid bodies are a beauty of there own and show the craftsman ship of the creater. Nothing more mothing less