Thread: Aussie wood for electric guitars

No research really needed unless its for own personnel satisfaction, I repair the guitars that the music shops cant fix, got plenty of bodies laying around that are made of plywood

Originally Posted by simso

Very interesting thoughts and process's, lets first step aside from acoustic as there is no comparison of this debate in this situation

Agreed....with a few exceptions. Eg. mass of the neck has an influence on sustain in both acoustic and electrics.

The never ending battle, how many times has this subject been brought up.
There is two different camps the ones that reckon that a electric guitar can be built from ply, concrete, chip board Etc and it makes no difference to the sound, it all comes down to pickups amp, strings Etc.
And then we have the ones that like to build from real wood.
To me if one uses good dense tonewood it would have to sound better and after talking with some of the worlds top luthiers they all agree that solid wood sounds better.
Regards, Bob.

Originally Posted by woodturner777

The never ending battle, how many times has this subject been brought up.
There is two different camps the ones that reckon that a electric guitar can be built from ply, concrete, chip board Etc and it makes no difference to the sound, it all comes down to pickups amp, strings Etc.
And then we have the ones that like to build from real wood.
To me if one uses good dense tonewood it would have to sound better and after talking with some of the worlds top luthiers they all agree that solid wood sounds better.
Regards, Bob.

Well said bob, I would also argue that the main difference apart from tone is to quote The Castle, " its the vibe of the thing" real wood has a feel, and warmth that plywood can never have and for want of a better term " a personality" . I have never seen plywood with personality, have never felt a piece of plywood "speak to me" when I've picked it up. I will perform the said experiment, and will post the results, cheers

Originally Posted by woodturner777

To me if one uses good dense tonewood it would have to sound better

A very bold short statement but you're going to have to elaborate. Why does good dense tonewood make an electric guitar sound better? How exactly does density of the tonewood benefit the sound of the instrument? How much does the choice of wood affect the sound compared to other factors....particularly the electric components of the instrument?

Originally Posted by wileyc007

Well said bob, I would also argue that the main difference apart from tone is to quote The Castle, " its the vibe of the thing" real wood has a feel, and warmth that plywood can never have and for want of a better term " a personality" . I have never seen plywood with personality, have never felt a piece of plywood "speak to me" when I've picked it up. I will perform the said experiment, and will post the results, cheers

With due respect, Bob didnt say much at all......a single bold declaration with no discussion or supporting evidence.

You talk about "feel" and "warmth" and "personality".....these are asthetic qualities and you're going to have to explain to me exactly how the way a wood looks controls the tone of an electric guitar.

To make my opinion clear I'm of the belief that the choice of woods does have SOME effect on the sound of the instrument BUT other factors (particularly the electrics, scale length, amp etc) have far more influence. I haven't done my own scientific experimentation but I have played a fair number of different electric instruments over the years and my opinion is largely based on the latter.

A never ending argument.....nothing wrong with that, it's just an indication of how poorly understood this subject is.

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

With due respect, Bob didnt say much at all......a single bold declaration with no discussion or supporting evidence.

You talk about "feel" and "warmth" and "personality".....these are asthetic qualities and you're going to have to explain to me exactly how the way a wood looks controls the tone of an electric guitar.

To make my opinion clear I'm of the belief that the choice of woods does have SOME effect on the sound of the instrument BUT other factors (particularly the electrics, scale length, amp etc) have far more influence. I haven't done my own scientific experimentation but I have played a fair number of different electric instruments over the years and my opinion is largely based on the latter.

A never ending argument.....nothing wrong with that, it's just an indication of how poorly understood this subject is.

My point Kiwi was not that the warmth etc were aesthetic but more of an "emotional" for want of a better.term quality. Yes its true as I've said before that there are thousands of variables that contribute to tone. What I was trying to say was that if you tale a plywood body and a tonewood body painted identically so you can't see a grain etc, the tonewood will have a "feel" it will speak to you. I do agree that electronics, etc have a large part to play, and even the glue and finish, neck, everything contributes, however, the overall "character" of the instrument comes from the wood, if it was purely aesthetic, Joe public wouldn't give a fat rats what his guitar was made of and makers of electric instruments everywhere would have switched to mdf years ago. Anyhow, let the debate continue, and the experiment begin

Originally Posted by wileyc007

..... the overall "character" of the instrument comes from the wood,

So you're saying that the character of the instrument is determined mainly by the wood? This I don't agree with.

Originally Posted by wileyc007

if it was purely aesthetic, Joe public wouldn't give a fat rats what his guitar was made of and makers of electric instruments everywhere would have switched to mdf years ago. Anyhow, let the debate continue, and the experiment begin

Unfortunately Joe public generally puts asthetics (=coolness) along with price before anything else when chosing which product to buy. Manufacturers know this and it's why they spend millions on advertising and bright attractive packaging. For Joe Public it's the asthetics that sell the guitar.....for a majority of people a guitar is a fashion item just like an iPod or a mobile phone...if it's cool it's a must have.

Real wood looks nicer than MDF but I bet if you made an electric with a MDF core and a natural wood veneer on the outside and didnt tell the customer.... you'd fool a hell of a lot of people including a fair few professional musicians and luthiers.

Looking forward to seeing this experiment happen....quantifying the end result may be a challenge though.

Cheers Martin

What is "sounding better" anyhow?
There is no universal standard
Many including Jimmy Page at one stage played a cheap danelectro with masonite top and back
And what is a 335 anyhow besides a lump of low density wood along the centre with plywood on the front and back?

Im all for natural wood, It is after all the reason they sell, you go to the shop and theres this gorgious bookmatched flame maple top on a mahogany body, truly sexy,,,Same for me applies with mountain ash Mmm very nice. But I just mentioned to the original poster that it really is irrelevant becuase it is. Out of all the variables on a n electric that can change the tone the base wood would not even register as a mention, its purely an aesthetic issue

I also agree a doublle blind test by someone that did not know what they were made out of would simply confirm the findings.

But the hard bit is making two guitars EXACTLY the same with a diffreent material used for the body, and were talking the exact same cut profiles and depths on the nuts to coil wound exactly the same to the last ohm, strings at the same height of the same material as each other, the soldering internally plays a major factor as well, that is a good soldered joint not a blob of crap etc etc, its ceretainly not something someone can do in there backyard and say Ive proven it.

Ive got cnc routers that can machine bodies out of lumps of wood, coil winding machines etc, and I dont think I could make two identical to each other to the specification required to be an acceptable comparison

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

So you're saying that the character of the instrument is determined mainly by the wood? This I don't agree with.



Unfortunately Joe public generally puts asthetics (=coolness) along with price before anything else when chosing which product to buy. Manufacturers know this and it's why they spend millions on advertising and bright attractive packaging. For Joe Public it's the asthetics that sell the guitar.....for a majority of people a guitar is a fashion item just like an iPod or a mobile phone...if it's cool it's a must have.

Real wood looks nicer than MDF but I bet if you made an electric with a MDF core and a natural wood veneer on the outside and didnt tell the customer.... you'd fool a hell of a lot of people including a fair few professional musicians and luthiers.

Looking forward to seeing this experiment happen....quantifying the end result may be a challenge though.

Cheers Martin

Martin,

I think he was inferring that "character" is an individual trait to each person. Much like music itself. It is something that no two people really agree on. Everyone has their own tastes and they are individual.

So when you look at guitars, the single really largest part that makes them individual, per se, is their wood. Be it ply, or blackwood, or maple or pine. It is one thing a person uses to define their guitar, why the like it etc. Others of course will use other things.

But it is such a personal and subjective thing. I do agree though with the tonewood observation by Bob. The question that comes is, once amplified, and undoubtedly played through a speaker from a guitar amp, that is far from the "best" speaker, into a room that was not acoustically designed could you hear the difference. That is probably up to the individuals ear.

As for why, when compared to say ply wood. Well that comes down to the construction, ply wood, as we all know, is made from very fine wood chip that is then glued back together. The glue normally constitutes something like 20% of the material, and glue itself is very brittle, and not very good under vibration, it does not transfer vibration well at all, this will effect the vibration of the strings, which will effect the sound.

Now is this discernible, will that is a very subjective matter, some say yes, some say no. And it is impossible to get a conclusive answer because everyone's hearing is different.

In the end, it comes down to what you personally like and feel.

Originally Posted by malexthekid

The glue normally constitutes something like 20% of the material, and glue itself is very brittle, and not very good under vibration, it does not transfer vibration well at all, this will effect the vibration of the strings, which will effect the sound.

On a solid body electric the string is plucked..the string vibrates...the pickup converts the string vibration to an electrical signal. A relatively small fraction of the string vibration is transmitted to the neck via the nut and to the body via the bridge.

If as you postulate, the glue in the plywood does not transfer vibration well then surely this would mean that there will be more of the string vibration available to be converted to electrical energy by the pickup?? ie less of the string energy is absorbed by the wood. If this is correct then surely this would mean that a plywood solid body guitar should sound better than a guitar constructed of solid wood.

Originally Posted by malexthekid

I do agree though with the tonewood observation by Bob.

This was Bob's observation:

"To me if one uses good dense tonewood it would have to sound better and after talking with some of the worlds top luthiers they all agree that solid wood sounds better."

Why does "good dense tonewood" have to sound good??

I would bet my lefty that there are just as many top luthiers who would disagree that choice of wood is the most important control on the sound of a solid body electric guitar.

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

I would bet my lefty that there are just as many top luthiers who would disagree that choice of wood is the most important control on the sound of a solid body electric guitar.

I agree with your thoughts