Thread: Aussie wood for electric guitars

Well I want to know about coils and oscillator circuits in relation to electric guitars. Wax lyrical Jim, Im gonna learn something.

HI Jim,

I wasn't referring to you specifically as a pickup guru. I was just after an in depth explanation from anyone willing to offer it. I used your post as a quote simply beacuse my question related to it and wished to follow the preceeding discussion on pickups to further my own understanding, which is based mostly on playing experience (as opposed to theory) far from guru status, but hopefully working towards it.

In terms of the type of feedback, any feedback will do.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Sebastiaan56

. Wax lyrical

That made me chuckle

Originally Posted by peterbrown

I wasn't referring to you specifically as a pickup guru.

Cheers

Thank god for that Peter, I have never been good at sitting in the lotus position for very long.

It was a good question and prompted me to phone my pickup guru to run over past chats to make sure I have this stuff reasonably clear in my head and as always I don't but will do my best. My quote " All the pickup can read is the movement of the magnetic field that is induced into the string via the pickup magnet." I mean that the sound from a string does little in the equation (I can't do the equation though but maybe Jeff could ) and that the movement of the magnetic field in relationship to the coil is what produces current. Good feedback (the musical stuff) is generated from the sound of the amp at volume. In order for the PU to make a current the magnetic field must move in relationship to the coil. Sound has the ability to make things vibrate so the sound at volume from the amp must set up this movement in order to get the feedback, it has to move either the strings, magnets, coil or something else that has a magnetic field induced in it by the PU magnets like those little springs that were used on PUPS (I am not sure which one of those options make the "good" feedback but assume it is the strings, maybe someone else can add). Bad feedback, that stuff you can get at low volume (the high usually ugly sounding stuff) is related to earlier PUPS that are not wax potted. When the dope or laquer breaks down on the winding the wires have room to move and they can be set vibrating by sound causing the coil to move in relationship to the magnet. You could make a PU like that induce a current by whacking the guitar body or I have heard they can act like a microphone and pick up your voice. So maybe a old PU could pick up the strings sound but I reckon if you have PU's like that you would have to work hard to make it work well and I would think it is not what most players want, that's why they wax pot them now.



Hope that is helpful, please don't ask any more questions Peter

Jim

As part of a natural habit we boil coils after winding them in wax, I have played the coils pre and post waxing and must say even though the theory is correct they dont create there own arttificial sound when new, but agreed as time goes by Ive seen some coils (unpotted) where the coating has broken down and are a shocker for unwanted noise

Originally Posted by simso

As part of a natural habit we boil coils after winding them in wax, I have played the coils pre and post waxing and must say even though the theory is correct they dont create there own arttificial sound when new, but agreed as time goes by Ive seen some coils (unpotted) where the coating has broken down and are a shocker for unwanted noise

Sure and that stands to reason as when new, the dope not only insulates but effectively stops the windings from moving. I am not sure Fender would be such a big name if their PUPS were microphonic when they were brand new. Players of the time would have been saying "Don't buy that crud cause you can't turn the volume up".

Jim

Someone please turn down that microphonic Tele!

There is a good luthier from Tamworth, (the name escapes me ) that buils for a lot of the c/w crew, from all australian timbers. He's going to kill me for forgetting his name.
Anyway, he told me that Hoop pine and Kauri Pine were great for bodies, and certainly Hoop Pine would make a cheap practice peice.
Another Sydney Luthier told me that Ironwood was great for fretboards, but chipped away badly when removing the frets. I believe Gidgee is also good, if you can find a bit.
I think one of the best tonewoods I've heard for a while is New Ginea Rosewood.
Its easy to work, can look fantastic, and sounds great.
I know its not exactly Aussie, but its close!
Thats all i can think of at the moment

Chris

Hi wood gurus,

New member here joining in on the discussion. I've been playing bass for over 30yrs, recorded, toured, played all types of basses, from expensive to el cheapo. I have a very nice Breedlove Acoustic which is worth half the value of my work van... But when you find a sound you want, you just got to have it.

In regards to; woods adding to the sound of a solid body guitar. Does this also apply to bass?

How about fretless bass? How does the pickup transfer that woody fretless sound?

I'll spend whatever it takes (and my wallet can handle) to buy the best electronics I can but when it comes to basses, I tend to disregard the hype in regards to 'boutique basses' unless of course I want a really sweet looking bass. I've had common made in japan basses in the past that sounded fine through the right rig. I've had a Fender Precision Fretless which I didn't like the sound of. (it could have been because of the single P pickup).

If I needed to improve the sound of a bass or change it, the first thing I go for is a pickup change and different strings. As long as the neck feels right and the bass is well built... changing the wood (body), I feel will not change much in the sound, unless it's an extreme change.

ie. Mounting a bass neck onto a marching drum. (Banjo Patterson Bass?) and that change was pretty much an acoustic one.

Fretless could be a little different as the string vibrates on the fretboard. Would different fretboard woods sound different? Would the electronics pick that up?

Paul

Hi Acmeman,
I think the main issue for a fretless bass fingerboard is wear resistance. If I were building one from scratch, I would use either ebony or one of the dense desert Australian timbers.
I have one with a rosewood board that I converted from fretted and it stands up to casual play, but gigging would see it worn pretty quickly.
To me the key to getting the fretless sound is having jazz bass pickups, single coil. and having the action set just right.
I agree that body wood influence is minor, but a really dense body is probably going to give more sustain than attack.
I built a 5 stringer last year for my son with a New Guinea Rosewood body and neck (neckthrough) and was very pleased with that choice.

The effect of different woods can be significant, depending on the bass.
The good old ash body, maple neck/board is a combination used in 70's Jazz basses and original Stingray basses. Obviously these are bright, crisp sounding instruments.
The maple fingerboard is mostly responsible, but i have played an ernie ball stingray with an alder body, and it was a totally different beast... so the ash is definitely playing its part in the tone.
On the reverse side, fretless basses with maple fingerboards tend tro suck, as they have to be lacquered, and dont have that "classic" fretless sound.
So most people go for an ebony or rosewood of some sort. . . as mentioned, the wear factor is an issue, so Ebony is rightly the default option, really.
I agree completely that New Guinea Rosewood is a monster of a tonewood, and would work, as would many others for the body.
How much difference it would make? . . hard to say, but I have heard that the underlying concept behind the 1/4" cap or drop-top, is that to make it any thicker DOES start to affect the instrument's tone in some way.
I have always been a huge believer in turning all equipment off, and just playing the electric bass acoustically, to judje the original tone of the instrument.
If its good, thick, loud and sounds sweet, then your pickups and electronics have something to work with.
If it sounds weak or thin, then everything else is really pushing shat uphill to try and get a decent sound.
You cant polish a terd, basically.

just a thought

Originally Posted by Slapfest

If its good, thick, loud and sounds sweet, then your pickups and electronics have something to work with.

But magnetic pickups don't respond to sound...they're responding to changes in the magnet field around the pickup coil caused in turn by movement of the strings across the pickup. This one has already been argued to death on this forum.

I've had a couple of electrics (A maple necked Strat and an Ibanez Santana model) which sounded dead played unplugged but sounded great when plugged in.

The quality of the wood is the voice of the instrument.
If what you say is true (and it isnt)... why bother having a body at all?

we could just suspend it all on a frame . . . lol

Dont you think that perhaps the ability of the wood to transfer, resonate, and provide sustain, might somehow influence the sound?

In over 30 years of experience , i have tried tarting up many cheap cheap basses for students etc...
You can get them playing ok, but no modification of hardware can put them in the same ball park as instruments with quality wood and craftsmanship.

What is one of the main reason vintage instruments are so sought after?

Those trees are gone, you cant get the sort of wood they were chopping down in the 50's/60's anymore . . . true old growth forests are heavily restricted and regulated.
Almost all "sensitive" species are farmed and the timber available is nowhere near the quality now, and, . . wow! ... . instruments sound different masde from that wood!

I personally know many professioinals who will not use kiln dried timber as well, because it affects the tone, but i guess theyre probably wrong as well, eh?

so now all we need is a nifty plastic frame with 6 bits of wire suspended, and we got ourselves the latest guitar . . . lol
lotsa luck with that.

all we need is a nifty plastic frame with 6 bits of wire suspended, and we got ourselves the latest guitar

Like this?

ummm.... thats still got a body, and a neck
and they solunded like crep.
tis the reason theyre not around anymore

Ok, so NOTHING effects the string's ability to ring truly and sustain longer?
how caN THAT BE?

why would Jeff Babicz in the US spend years designing his new "full contact hardware", in order for the bridge to have as much contact as possible with the body,

Guess he's a dummy, too.

What about GRAPH-TECH saddles? . . hailed by many as giving much more sustain and tone.........more dummies, i guess.

all these designers trying to iimprove tone and sustain by increasing the transference (?) of the sound through to the body are obviously wasting their time but must be amazing salesmen, because they have others beleiving it as well!

So forget the woodworking guys, its all over . . . .get yaselves an allparts catalogue . . aparently thats all there is . . hardware

thats still got a body, and a neck

The body is only there to hold the bridge and the electronics; and the neck, well it would be hard to play without frets I suppose. But yeah the sound, well it suited the era I guess.

For what it's worth, I'm a bit on your side of the debate because I reckon the timber has at least some affect on vibration and sustain, which you would think has to leave some sort of fingerprint in the movement of the strings across the pick ups. But then I'm only a dddddrummer, so what do I know?

I know I built an electric guitar once, with an ash body and a Queensland maple neck. I spent a bit of money on the pick ups but it still sounded like crap