Thread: Australian Timbers Suitable as Tone Woods

Originally Posted by woodturner777

Hi Jim, I will send you my banking details tomorrow please direct deposit into my account Aus$24,000 for 2 cubic metres of pallet wood thanks for your business I need more customers like you.
Now as for your comments I totaly agree buy what ever suits your designs. if you like Rock Maple buy it. Rock Maple 750Kg M3 closest species here in tassie Myrtle 705Kg m3 but Leatherwood is even more. Eucalyptus 613 Kg M3 closest in looks to Rock Maple with beautiful figure and fiddleback Available in small amounts so there is other species suitable, so its up to you Jim to use what you like.
Cheers Bob

My apologies there Bob I will need to cancel that order as I thought it was $12.50 per cubic metre. Never would I have guessed you would sell pallet wood at 3- 4 times the price of blackwood.

I don't see any need to correct you Bob but you seem to have misunderstood my point. There is no Australian wood that I find suitable as a replacement for rock maple, that includes the types you have suggested here. They just do not have the same aesthetic appeal or mileage. Also density is not always a issue to me, I have just made a blackwood neck (see my thread entitled "a most excellent tool") and have several blackwood blanks ready for future builds, it is more stable and better to deal with than rock maple but is not a replacement, merely a different choice.

Jim

G'Day Jim, Sorry to hear that you have canceled pallet wood order.
On other note is Ironwood available up your way in large amounts or Rare.?
Cheers Bob

Originally Posted by toejam

My apologies there Bob I will need to cancel that order as I thought it was $12.50 per cubic metre. Never would I have guessed you would sell pallet wood at 3- 4 times the price of blackwood.

I don't see any need to correct you Bob but you seem to have misunderstood my point. There is no Australian wood that I find suitable as a replacement for rock maple, that includes the types you have suggested here. They just do not have the same aesthetic appeal or mileage. Also density is not always a issue to me, I have just made a blackwood neck (see my thread entitled "a most excellent tool") and have several blackwood blanks ready for future builds, it is more stable and better to deal with than rock maple but is not a replacement, merely a different choice.

Jim

Originally Posted by GhostGuitarist

One thing that will always bother me is the notion of someone choosing tone wood from overseas because it's cheap. It's cheap for a reason, there's mountains of it, and it's the accepted "norm".

Thats a strange thing to say Ghost. I buy alot tonewood from overseas and I can tell you its not cheap..even without freight factored in. As for there being mountains of ths stuff....I would debate this one as well. Indian Rosewood is still readily available but the quality isnt as good as it was in the past and a decent (at least 3A grade) back and side set is going to set you back at least $Aus120.

For the record I use imported Englemann, Sitka and Lutz spruce tops on my guitars because I cant find local wood of comparable properties (ie light and stiff) here in Australia. With back and side sets I have more options and generally have a fair bit of Australian wood in my shop...my favourite is Tassie Blackwood. That said I still prefer to work with Indian Rosewood....partly personal preference but its also an easy wood to work with and asthetically it goes nicely with alot of other woods.

Cheers Martin

Me personally I think some of the sitka deck quality AAA or optimum grade or whatever is a bit boreing with it's uniform tight grain patterns I would like something for my next build with a bit of character good sound but with some nice blemishes or markings to give the eye something to get caught by. I dont know about you guys but for me it is the well made guitars that look odd or different that i remember the looks of

I rank tonal and physical properties over asthetics when chosing my top woods. As stated above my top wood has to be light and stiff. Heavy floppy tops end up sounding like a piece of cardboard. Heavy and stiff plywood tops also sound dead..check out a cheap ply topped Chinese import and see what Im talking about.

I generally use 3A grade tops.....they're generally light and stiff but there is also a bit of variation in tightness of the grain across the top and occasionally minor defects (usually outside working area of top).

Note that Im talking about acoustics here....knots and other defects are perfectly ok on an electric as structural integrity of the guitar is less reliant on properties of the blank you start with.

Yes kiwigeo thats what im afraid of using something that doesnt have that ring to it when struck even before cutting your shape

Is there no agent that helps rigidity without loss of tone?? excuse me if this is a dumb question but im learning LOL

Richard, the one that would suit your needs would be Celery Top.
Cheers Bob

Originally Posted by Dix_Fix

Me personally I think some of the sitka deck quality AAA or optimum grade or whatever is a bit boreing with it's uniform tight grain patterns I would like something for my next build with a bit of character good sound but with some nice blemishes or markings to give the eye something to get caught by. I dont know about you guys but for me it is the well made guitars that look odd or different that i remember the looks of

Originally Posted by Dix_Fix

Is there no agent that helps rigidity without loss of tone?? excuse me if this is a dumb question but im learning LOL

Apart from the inherent physical properties of the wood the only other things you can play with is bracing and also building with the top arched to introduce a bit of stress.

Boiled down to basics making a good top is a play off between making the top thin enough so its going to vibrate relatively freely but not so thin that it buckles under string tension.

A good light stiff piece of spruce to start with means you can work down fairly thin and maintain structural integrity without having to go heavy on your bracing. There are no magic formulas in working out final thickness of your top and the final bracing. I tap my top as Im raw thicknessing it but I also keep in mind the fact that once bracing is attached and the top is attached to the sides its no longer going to be functioning as a free plate. To free up my tops a bit I thin towards periphery of the top around the lower bout and waist area. Again there are not fixed figures I use....I tap and flex the top as Im doing the final working with a cabinet scraper.

Originally Posted by woodturner777

Richard, the one that would suit your needs would be Celery Top.
Cheers Bob

Ive got some celery top amongst my wood stocks but havent yet had a chance to build anything with it. Its not bad looking wood but in its raw state tonally it just doesnt compare with the Englemann and Lutz Ive used on recent builds. The Englemann Im using right now is from BC and straight out of the packet it rings like a Chinese gong.

Oh the decisions of it all,,,, Lol thanks guys for the help I suppose it is like everything it comes down to personal tastes & preferences there is no hard & fast,,,,,,,,, that a good thing for me

Hi Martin, A few of my customers have built with Celery and love the look of it, it turns a beautiful melow yellow as it ages Just made me remember a song from my younger days. They call me mellow yellow. And I note some of the guys in the A.N.Z forum have used it. and I suppose you would brace it different to the spuces.
Regards Bob

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

Ive got some celery top amongst my wood stocks but havent yet had a chance to build anything with it. Its not bad looking wood but in its raw state tonally it just doesnt compare with the Englemann and Lutz Ive used on recent builds. The Englemann Im using right now is from BC and straight out of the packet it rings like a Chinese gong.

I have to tell you guys this story from today...I think it says a few things. I'd finished recording a track tonight, was playing it back to start mixing, a good mate, a guitarist of some 20 years dropped by...."well give us a listen then he says".... we get half way through the track and as he looks at the two Maton six strings he remarks, "which one did you use on this track?"....I stopped the track and laughed...he said "whats funny"....I walked out to the lounge room, came back and handed him a $50.00 K-mart kids steel string acoustic that I'd bought ..."Here, I said....sounds alright doesn't it"...the look on his face was priceless.

Now, I'd bought that guitar to play a joke on a friend, which worked quite well I must say..but the thing was, once we'd stopped laughing...we decided to put a decent set of strings on it and it sound o.k....thats when I decided to record with it just to hear what the result might be.

So can you tell the difference between a Maton six string worth $1500.00 and a K-mart kids acoustic with a decent set of strings valued at $50.00....? No. Not when recorded you can't.

Shocked...? I am.

Originally Posted by GhostGuitarist

I have to tell you guys this story from today...I think it says a few things. I'd finished recording a track tonight, was playing it back to start mixing, a good mate, a guitarist of some 20 years dropped by...."well give us a listen then he says".... we get half way through the track and as he looks at the two Maton six strings he remarks, "which one did you use on this track?"....I stopped the track and laughed...he said "whats funny"....I walked out to the lounge room, came back and handed him a $50.00 K-mart kids steel string acoustic that I'd bought ..."Here, I said....sounds alright doesn't it"...the look on his face was priceless.

Now, I'd bought that guitar to play a joke on a friend, which worked quite well I must say..but the thing was, once we'd stopped laughing...we decided to put a decent set of strings on it and it sound o.k....thats when I decided to record with it just to hear what the result might be.

So can you tell the difference between a Maton six string worth $1500.00 and a K-mart kids acoustic with a decent set of strings valued at $50.00....? No. Not when recorded you can't.

Shocked...? I am.

You recorded a Maton, and a Kmart guitar, and couldnt tell between the two after the fact...

or

You recorded a song, and your mate assumed one of the two prized matons sitting next to your recording gear was used for the song you were playing him?

Can't say Matons set me on fire..I'd probably prefer the sound of the K mart dunger