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2nd September 2006, 10:11 PM #1
how to build a quad box or a twin box?
Does anyone have any idea / experience in building quad boxes or twin boxes for guitar amp heads? Dimensions, best materials & internal design, important principles, cheapest way to source good speakers and so on? I'm thinking it's got to be relatively easy and do-able and I'd like to give it a crack. Thanks, Toddles.
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3rd September 2006, 02:41 AM #2
Hey Toddles
When I finish my guitar build Im planning on building my own tube amp
A 2x12 Combo with Celestion V30's
Ive been checking out a few places such as the links below and I may buy this kit:
http://www.ceriatone.com/productSubP...allTMBEF86.htm
Here are a few sites that have heaps of info on Amps
You can download free amp cab plans from this one:
http://www.18watt.com/
You'll find info on where to buy speakers here in Oz from this one:
http://www.guitargear.net.au/discussion/
If you can read schematics (or learn to) this site has D.I.Y. plans for tube amps plus heaps of other amp info:
http://www.ax84.com/
Regards
dayvo
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4th September 2006, 11:40 AM #3
Never built one, but I've had a play with several in the past and I've build stereo speaker enclosures before. Are you considering an open or sealed cabinet?
The quality of material and construction will have a big impact on sound level and colour in a sealed system. It's worth building the cabinet with the potential to seal it later so you can experiment with dimensions, ports or other vents, etc.
Love to see your design!
Dave.
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6th September 2006, 07:11 PM #4
Thank you Daves. I also found this very helpful page:
http://sound.westhost.com/project27b.htm
Note: I've got a 100W Tube amp head unit so I was most interested in the speaker cabinet designs & tips further down the page - both twin combo and quad box. Good advice about materials & construction but no dimensions which is OK I guess because that's probably the easiest bit (ie: measure an existing one). Note the 100w amp design is superceded at ESP by the link at the top of the page. I also found:
http://www.venuemusic.com.au/SubCate...3&SubCatID=769
Who a) Sell Celestion speakers in Australia (the most commonly used in high quality guitar amps / cabinets) b)Have the specs for the Celestion speakers if you're (like me!) going to be hunting down cheaper alternatives that will do a good job - I've set myself a $150 budget for the cabinet. The most critical factor when it comes to speakers seems to be the frequency range (see the first link - ESP - above for the importance of limiting the upper range). Whilst it seems imperative to have it capped at a round 5000 Hz most cheaper (especially paper cone) woofer speakers seem to only have a range to 2500-3000 Hz which means the speaker is going to be missing a whole lot of high end. The bottom range for celestions seems lower on the better models (75Hz vs. 100 Hz) though having extra lower range doesn't seem to have a problem like the harmonic distortion issue of having too much upper range described on the ESP site - it's just not considered necessary.
The standard Celestion G12T-75 specs are as follows (though the different Celestions do vary):
G12T-75 General specifications
Nominal diameter 12", 305mm
Power Rating 75W
Nominal impedance 8Ω and 16Ω
Sensitivity 97dB
Chassis type Pressed steel
Voice coil diameter 1.75", 44.5mm
Voice coil material Round copper
Magnet type Ceramic
Magnet weight 35oz, 0.99kg
Frequency range 80-5000Hz
Resonance frequency, Fs 85Hz
DC resistance, Re 6.77Ω & 12.9Ω
Mounting Information
Diameter 12.2", 309mm
Overall depth 5.0", 127mm
Magnet structure diameter 5.7", 145mm
Cut-out diameter 11.1", 283mm
Mounting slot dimensions 0.31", 7.9mm Ø
Number of mounting slots 4
Mounting slot PCD 11.7", 297mm
Unit weight 7.7lb, 3.5kg
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7th September 2006, 01:54 AM #5
Dayvo - 2x12 cabinet plans?
Dayvo I noticed on another thread in this forum you mention 2x12 combo plans you have. Any chance of me nabbing a copy of that PDF off of you?
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7th September 2006, 02:12 AM #6
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7th September 2006, 11:24 AM #7
G'day.
There is an OZ & NZ amp forum here...
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ANZAmps/
Good for making contact with like minded people in your area & finding sources of parts in Oz & NZ & on the net.
I made a couple of speaker boxes a while back.
Pics on this forum here.
I didn't make them from a plan, I just used MDF & worked out the most efficient use of a sheet of MDF.
All the fittings except the wheels came from Jaycar.
The speakers are music instrument speakers from WES components.
Cliff.
If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.
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7th September 2006, 05:51 PM #8
Thanks Cliff the quad box in particular looks great.
Did you just paint them black?
I'm still looking at a more classic twin combo or marshall quad box shape I think. Are the speakers:
WES Components INSTRUMENTAL 12" 250W
Heavy Duty Dai-1chi Speaker. Large gauge design Accordion/doped cloth surround Reinforced cellulose fibre cone. Z: 8 Ohm (5.7 Ohm dc) Freq: 32 - 5KHz Fo: 55Hz Sens: 95dB Magnet: 50 Oz Voice: 32mm Power: 250W/500W Qms 5.15 Qes 0.74 Qts 0.65 Vas 88.1L IS12000 (I think the guy a WES said they were $110 +post)?
Did you wire the quad series parallel ie: is it a 4 Ohm box or an 8 Ohm Box?
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7th September 2006, 06:35 PM #9
[quote=toddles;369134]Vas 88.1Lquote]
:eek: Do they even *have* a spider? Maybe I'm just not familiar enough with guitar speakers, but that seems really big to me."Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
- Douglas Adams
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7th September 2006, 07:01 PM #10
Couple of coats of primer/sealer & then Matt Black from a spray can.
That's the speaker.... they were only $73.75 when I bought mine.
It is an 8 ohm cab.
I wired 2 banks of 2 in series parallel.
I also installed a switch on the back so I can short the centre connection of the 2 series legs together to make it parallel series. (Clear as mud? ) I can draw a pick if it helps.
I found some guff on the net a couple of years ago about the dynamic difference between 4 speakers wired series parallel or parallel series.
I've tried it both ways & I can't tell the difference.
I'm using it for Valve amps... hobby stuff, not serious gig work, they are too bloody heavy for that.:eek:
They would be a bit louder if they were 4 ohm but they are already way too loud for under my house in Cairns.
I stuck my old Silver Face Fender Bassman 100 into them & nearly demolished the building.Cliff.
If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.
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7th September 2006, 08:38 PM #11
Nope - that's pretty clear mud.
I'm with you.:confused:
Even if gigging there is nothing I hate more than a guitarist whose is so loud that everything else is maxxed out through the PA to match his/her volume:mad:. I'll be using my old Yamaha Bass 100 through it which makes my ears bleed :eek: when the volume's set at two (the dial goes to eleven of course). Lets hope the old jarrah framed shed (.. I'm mean workshop ...I mean rehearsal room...I mean studio - it has a fractured personality) holds up as well as your house!
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7th September 2006, 09:21 PM #12
Have some serious thaughts about what you want to achieve before you build a speaker box for instruments.
There are a heap of traditional designs out there and some farely new concepts too.
the principles involved in design of instrument speakers are completely different to those of hi fi speakers.
What do you want to play thru the speaker, what style do you play, what sound are you looking for, how much do you want to pay to achieve this.
also where are you going to use this speaker and how strong is your back.
personaly as a "soundman" the last thing I want on stage is "some idiot" with a quad box..... Why..... a quad box is a phased array that produces a narrow beam of sound that doesn't fully develop and converge till about 15 to 20 metres out.
It is also large and mostly sits on the floor.
SO the speaker points at the back of the players legs (where his ears arent) the dispertion is very narrow making matters worse because the off axis level is much reduced and even on axis within 3 or 4 metres of the box it realy dosn't sound that big.
Result the player always plays louder than he thinks and doesn't understand why he is ripping the ears of people in the 10th to 20th row.
The quad box was designed in the 50's & 60's when whe didn't have real PA systems, so.... at wood stock hendrix and everybody else was playing thru two double quad box stacks covering the whole padock. The PA system only had the vocals..... no foldback, no fancy electronics....
today we play smaller rooms or we play supported by huge and sofisticated pa systems.
There is not the necessity for large powerful amplifiers or quad boxes and the are a lot of configurations that are a lot more pracical, versatile and possibly sound better than a quad box.
All that said however from a players opint of view there is nothing that beats standing in front of a WELL LOUD double stacked quad box rig.
I know a number of players who own big loud guitar rigs but these days they leave them in the soundproof rehesal rooms and take something a lot smaller to the gig with them. Some of the well known pro's carry tiny amps these days.
For regular general purpose guitar work you have to go a long way to beat a good twin 12 inch combo style rig. A twin 10 can work very well also and is an awfull lot smaller.
for bass gituar a 15, 10 & horn takes a lot of beating. If you are playing straight bass with no slaping, banging or plucking a well designed single 15 will be very adequiate.
Most of instrument design is about "MY sound" and very much less about proper maths and physics.
Cliffs quad looks pretty typical the other box looks a bit ..... um sorry cliff.... odd.
If any of you guys are interested I have books full of designs, speaker design software and access to a variety of brands of raw drivers, including eminence, celestion, selenium...... and some cheaper brands.
Whatever you build you need to be able to have the speakers pointing at your head.... because thats where your ears are.... mostly these days instrument amps are used so the player can hear to make their sounds the heavy freight is done by the FOH PA system and the foldback.
Consider this.... the most popular and most frequently specified guitar amplifier in the back line hire business is and has been for ages the "Fender "THE TWIN" " amplifier.
Fender made a heap of variations of the twin over the years but people like that one.
The fender twin is a twin 12 inch combo which in many versions had chrome legs so it could be tilted back to face the player.
Sorry to rave but most young players dream of a quad box and many old players have shot hearing and a crook back because of them.
If I can help re post or send me a PM.
cheersAny thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
Most powertools have sharp teeth.
People are made of meat.
Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.
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8th September 2006, 12:27 AM #13
You want PA/guitar speakers... go here http://www.cannononline.com.au/
Something like this http://www.cannononline.com.au/catal.../c94/c316/p934
or something light on the sore back side of things http://www.cannononline.com.au/catal.../c94/c316/p927....................................................................
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8th September 2006, 12:43 AM #14I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Albert Einstein
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8th September 2006, 01:39 AM #15
2x12 Combo Plans
Hey Toddles
Here are the 2x12 Combo plans
You'll need adobe acrobat reader to view them
Hope they're helpful to you
dayvo
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