Thread: A couple of headstock inlay questions

Have never done a Headstock inlay, however I have done a lot of Marquetry.

Approaching in from that side I would inlay the NG into the Camphor first, then inlay a
completed design into the Headstock.

Just wondering if the 2mm may be to thick??

Given I mainly work with .06mm veneers, added to that I would be inclined to have both timbers at the same thickness (i.e. 1mm) and cut though the Camphor instead of cutting into it for the NG inlay.

Best way to hold the pieces, IMO, is the tape them down with good old sticky tape, replacing the tape as you cut around the design.
This stops the problem of sticky bits and gluing problems later on.

For the inlay itself I (personally) would use a router (trimmer) with a small bit for the bulk. Prior to that you may find it beneficial to cut, gently at first, around the outline of the design (held in place with sticky tape) with a very sharp blade several times.

Route out the bulk up to about 1mm from the scored line to the correct depth. Pry the remained of the design out with the same sharp knife and the fit and glue the design.

Could be worth a shot to have a few practice goes on something else before the real thing.

Look forward to seeing the finished product.


Cheers

Steve

First up, thanks for the in-depth reply, Steve, I appreciate the help on this.

Originally Posted by fineboxes

Have never done a Headstock inlay, however I have done a lot of Marquetry.
Approaching in from that side I would inlay the NG into the Camphor first, then inlay a completed design into the Headstock.

Good, I'm glad you said that. I was leaning that way, since on top of other considerations, if I mess up in the early stages I only wreck the inlay pieces and not the headstock.

Just wondering if the 2mm may be to thick??
Given I mainly work with .06mm veneers, added to that I would be inclined to have both timbers at the same thickness (i.e. 1mm) and cut though the Camphor instead of cutting into it for the NG inlay.

Hmmm. I'll have to consider this seriously. Didn't think of it. Saves some effort, since I don't have to worry about flattening the bottom of the recess in the Camphor Laurel. Pretty easy to make the CL thinner - I have a small home-made planer sled for my Dremel router. That's how I got the materials to their current thickness in the first place, with a 1/4" straight-cut bit and DS tape to hold it in place. Works a treat.

Best way to hold the pieces, IMO, is the tape them down with good old sticky tape, replacing the tape as you cut around the design.
This stops the problem of sticky bits and gluing problems later on.

So that is the best way. That's how I cut out the 'S', with the Dremel/end mill, constantly retaping with strong masking tape so it wouldn't move around. (Still a bit surprised I got away with it. For the other pieces, since they're simple shapes, I used an Xacto knife, lightly overcutting many times until I was through. Didn't even consider using that method for marking out, but I will now.

For the inlay itself I (personally) would use a router (trimmer) with a small bit for the bulk. Prior to that you may find it beneficial to cut, gently at first, around the outline of the design (held in place with sticky tape) with a very sharp blade several times.
Route out the bulk up to about 1mm from the scored line to the correct depth. Pry the remained of the design out with the same sharp knife and the fit and glue the design.

I don't have a trimmer, just my trusty Dremel - same thing I guess.

Could be worth a shot to have a few practice goes on something else before the real thing.
Look forward to seeing the finished product.
Cheers
Steve

I'll do that, and thanks again.
Hopefully. it'll end up looking something like this: -
Inlay Mockup.JPG

It'll look awesome, pleased I could help.

Cheers

Steve

Originally Posted by fineboxes

Given I mainly work with .06mm veneers, added to that I would be inclined to have both timbers at the same thickness (i.e. 1mm) and cut though the Camphor instead of cutting into it for the NG inlay.

After a little more thought, I'm definitely going to follow your suggestion, Steve. If I cut right through the Camphor Laurel, it'll be much easier to clean up the outline, using my mini (bead) files, rather than the more painstaking method with an Xacto knife. Should get a neater edge. I'm also using the same files on the small inlay pieces, to slightly taper the edges for a firm plug-like fit.
Thanks for the tips. Learned heaps today. Time to put it all into practice now.

Originally Posted by Hermit

My next question is what's the best way to hold the small pieces in place on the larger piece while tracing around them for the recess. So far, I'm tossing up between tiny pieces of DS tape and spray adhesive. Either way, they'll need a good wash with white spirits afterwards. Or is there another, better way? I don't trust myself to hold them in place with my fingers without them moving, especially the 'S'.

Hide glue is another option. Tack time is short and a bit of heat will undo the joint and clean up is a simple matter of a bit of hot water and a toothbrush.

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

Hide glue is another option. Tack time is short and a bit of heat will undo the joint and clean up is a simple matter of a bit of hot water and a toothbrush.

G'day kiwigeo, that's a thought. I overlooked that one. I don't have 'real' hide glue, but do have the Titebond Liquid Hide Glue. Should perform the same, I think.
Do you happen to know whether hot or cold water is best for removing it? I haven't actually used this glue for anything yet. Bought it especially for this build.

Just finished thinning the Camphor Laurel down to 1mm, so marking out is the next step.

Originally Posted by Hermit

G'day kiwigeo, that's a thought. I overlooked that one. I don't have 'real' hide glue, but do have the Titebond Liquid Hide Glue. Should perform the same, I think.
Do you happen to know whether hot or cold water is best for removing it? I haven't actually used this glue for anything yet. Bought it specially for this build.

Just finished thinning the Camphor Laurel down to 1mm, so marking out is the next step.

For undoing a hide glue joint I use a heat gun on low heat. If the work pieces are flat then a clothes iron on low heat will do the job. I also use a photographers sealing iron for some of the work I do (lute building). For clean up I boil up the jug and dip a toothbrush in a container of the hot water.

The Titebond liquid hide glue will be fine for temporarily tacking stuff together but if you're ever doing permanent joints then make up your own glue.

For gluing in inlays its useful to use a glue which can be coloured up. ie when Im inlaying into ebony fretboards I add ebony dust to the epoxy glue I use so any gaps are masked by the black coloured epoxy.

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

For undoing a hide glue joint I use a heat gun on low heat. If the work pieces are flat then a clothes iron on low heat will do the job. I also use a photographers sealing iron for some of the work I do (lute building). For clean up I boil up the jug and dip a toothbrush in a container of the hot water.

The Titebond liquid hide glue will be fine for temporarily tacking stuff together but if you're ever doing permanent joints then make up your own glue.

For gluing in inlays its useful to use a glue which can be coloured up. ie when Im inlaying into ebony fretboards I add ebony dust to the epoxy glue I use so any gaps are masked by the black coloured epoxy.

Good stuff. As soon as I posted, I realised that it was partly a silly question. I already knew that to remove hide glued parts, you use heat + moisture. Just wasn't thinking.

Still, I'm now glad I asked, thanks to your extra info.
I keep fine dust from most timbers I work with, to mix with PVA or epoxy to fill minor faults. Jarrah dust is especially useful for general use on natural faults - when mixed with epoxy it looks pretty natural and saplike. I've got plenty of fine NGR and Camphor, ready for this job.

I was going to use the Titebond stuff for my fretboard, but I'll get some real hide glue for that now. Don't want it creeping on me.
Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Hermit

I was going to use the Titebond stuff for my fretboard, but I'll get some real hide glue for that now. Don't want it creeping on me.
Thanks again.

There are various schools of thought on which glue is best for the fretboard/neck joint. Water based glues such as AR and hide glues can sometimes induce backbow to the neck. Ive never had this happen and I dress ad fret my fretboards after theyve been glued on so generally use Titebond I for gluing my fretboards on my acoustics. If youre worried about backbow then use epoxy. I used to reason that an epoxy joint would be a problem if there was ever a need to remove the fretboard but I then realised that the fretboard/neck joint is one of the joints least likely to require reversal on a a guitar.

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

There are various schools of thought on which glue is best for the fretboard/neck joint. Water based glues such as AR and hide glues can sometimes induce backbow to the neck. Ive never had this happen and I dress ad fret my fretboards after theyve been glued on so generally use Titebond I for gluing my fretboards on my acoustics. If youre worried about backbow then use epoxy. I used to reason that an epoxy joint would be a problem if there was ever a need to remove the fretboard but I then realised that the fretboard/neck joint is one of the joints least likely to require reversal on a a guitar.

I'm using a 2-way truss rod, so backbow isn't too much of an issue, but was thinking of using hide glue in case the truss rod failed and needed replacing in the future. Shouldn't really be a problem, but I wanted to keep my options open, just in case.

Like you, I'll be adding the frets after assembly, but have already radiused the fretboard and cut the slots. If I mess up too badly during fretting, with hide glue I can reverse my error. Probably pretty hard to stuff up while simple pressing in the frets, though.

Another quick question, I'm planning to use only (MinWax) Teak oil for the NGR fretboard, after fretting. Tested it on a scrap, and it looks great and has a beautiful, silky feel. A good idea?

Edit: As of 11 minutes ago, it's now April Fool's Day, so be wary today.
Thanks for all the help, it's much appreciated. I'm off to bed, then i'll put what I learned today into practice in the morning.

Apologies for a small hijack/digression, but a quick question for anyone who does these inlays....

Does anyone know of a local supplier of single bevel blades left and right, to perform the work discussed above?

Steve

Originally Posted by kamusur

Apologies for a small hijack/digression, but a quick question for anyone who does these inlays....

Does anyone know of a local supplier of single bevel blades left and right, to perform the work discussed above?

Steve

Is everybody around here called Steve?

No problem, Steve, you're not hijacking. In fact, over the last hour I've discovered that I need to ask the same question. I can't get closer than 1/4mm to 1/2mm from the lines without laying the Xacto knife on an angle.

Got up early and continued working. This was really tricky to work with, so I roughly inlaid the piece into 1mm of cardboard, with another 1mm of backing so I wouldn't cut into my plywood backing board, then taped it down while routing and trimming. Had no problem roughing most of it out with the Dremel and a 0.050" up-cut end-mill bit, followed by some Xacto trimming, but will have to resort to filing to finish off. I did that on the first piece, and it worked out moderately well, but the remaining two will be a little harder. This thing is really fragile. Even the up-cut bit almost tore the thin protruding upper piece of the 'S' off as I worked.

To give it a little strength, I tacked the first piece into place with small drops of thin CA, in places where there was no gap to fill, so I can fill those later with glue/sawdust. I'll do the same with the upper triangle, before tackling the 'S'. So far so good. Gotta make some type of small parallel-jawed clamp to hold each edge as I file now, or it's sure to break:

Cutting Inlay Recesses 1.JPG Cutting Inlay Recesses 2.JPG

Originally Posted by Hermit

Is everybody around here called Steve?

We have Secret Handshake as well.

Cheers

Steve

Originally Posted by fineboxes

We have Secret Handshake as well.
Cheers
Steve

Ha, yeah, all my life, I seem to have been surrounded by fellow Steves.

Found I can hold each edge for filing like this:

Filing recesses.JPG