Thread: the ethics milling of old growth timbers

Hi Old Picker,

I'd jam the lid back on that Pandora's box if I were you. Put plenty of glue on the lid first and then nail it down with 316 stainless nails. Finish the job by application of the concrete boots approach.

If you must persist then treat us to your definition of "old growth" forest first so we know what we are talking of.

There's more than 3000 FTE workers in Tasmania, most of them in the craft manufacturing and sales areas, that rely on special species as a co- product produced from harvesting old growth eucalypt forest. That number doesn't include workers in the hardwood manufacturing area except for the little bit that has special characteristics such as fiddle back and is removed from the mainstream.

Those folk have a wholesale turnover of $75M pr annum.

We wouldn't want to upset all those gentle and dedicated folk would we?

Cheers Old Pete

My only comment is ....BALANCE!!

Balance in all things. Surely we can harvest decent timber from old gowth forests with out decemating it! No body would want to see our forests wrecked but people need jobs! Surely a balance can be reached. Our mining industry is another hot potato. There is a huge amount of investment and people dependant on the industry but even those people would not like to see Australia as a big hole/quarry. There has to be middle ground!! Those on both sides need to recognise this and proceed accordingly.

The way I read Ray's post hes not on about banning milling of old forest growth timber. He asked for opinions on harvesting of such timber in a sustainable fashion. He also asks if it is possible to tell if timber is plantation grown or from old growth forest.

Seems like fair questions to me. Surely if you want to maintain the long term viability of the Tasmanian milling industry doesn't it make sense to engage in harvesting methods that maintain the sustainability of the raw product?

My parents house in New Zealand was built in 1967 and the framing inside the walls is Rimu. Back then Rimu was clear felled and used as framing and other uses where today Radiata pine is used. Most of the large Rimu trees have been milled out and the wood is now only used for high quality furniture. The demise of Rimu and other native species led to the death of the sawmilling industry on the West Coast of New Zealands South Island. One wonders if this would have happened if they'd engaged in more sustainable milling practises back in the 60's. Its also interesting to note that despite the demise of most of the West Coast's mills the area is still and none of the old milling towns have died.

Cheers Martin

"Old Growth Forest is forest that is ecologically mature and has been subjected to negligible unnatural disturbance such as logging, roading and clearing.....in which the upper stratum or overstorey is in the late mature to over mature growth phase."

(National Forest Policy Statement, Commonwealth of Australia, 1992).

I think Martin makes a really good point. Think the legendary Brazilian Rosewood. Plundered and now going for USD1500 for a guitar set. Would have been good to have a few greenies around while that was happening so that the indigenous people would have an ongoing income now.

I know FSC certification is important Ray and that would be the place to start, I personally think that these resources are precious and need to be treated as such. Clear felling large swathes ensures that there will be no future. I know FSC is held in reasonable regard.

I may be wrong.

As Bob Dylan quoted The times are a changing.

Bob Dylan = Old Growth Musician

Me too Martin, I can not Rock and Roll like I used to but too young to die.
And I still like Dylan.
And all the the old groups of past.

Originally Posted by kiwigeo

Bob Dylan = Old Growth Musician

Ray as far as know apart from blackwood grown here in tasmania as a plantation timber, the only other species grown in australia suitable for musical instruments is bunya pine, but I could be wrong.
Now Sebastiaan, chambezio and Martin made very valid points if old growth was selective logged no problems put it into the very best value adding products, but the old ways have to change you just can not go on clear falling old growth forests for ever. YOU RUN OUT, the way I believe you take out the best large old trees and leave the smaller miner species to grow.
And from what I see'ing things are changing for the best, I have seen some great changes the past few years in Tasmania and I am hoping that it will get better still.
And I am sure it will.
Cheers,Bob.

Originally Posted by old_picker

just wondering if any who read this board have opinions on this subject?
for eg does it matter if timber is ethically harvested in a sustainable manner?
do you know which [if any] timbers available in australia are plantation grown?

Hi,

My view on what is "ethical" is a practise that is sustainable. An as far as I'm concerned anthing that is of ecological significance remains untouched. An areas to be logged get logged selectively at a rate which is equal to or less than the rate in which it regenerates. That way biodiversity remains and the logging industry is maintained indefinately, which means that people keep their jobs indefinately.

But it is not logging for timber that is the problem in most cases, it is pulp. I recon harvesting timber is a great resource that should be utilised more. It grows on trees....that is if you let it grow...

Cheers,

Peter

Well said Peter.

Originally Posted by peterbrown

Hi,

My view on what is "ethical" is a practise that is sustainable. An as far as I'm concerned anthing that is of ecological significance remains untouched. An areas to be logged get logged selectively at a rate which is equal to or less than the rate in which it regenerates. That way biodiversity remains and the logging industry is maintained indefinately, which means that people keep their jobs indefinately.

But it is not logging for timber that is the problem in most cases, it is pulp. I recon harvesting timber is a great resource that should be utilised more. It grows on trees....that is if you let it grow...

Cheers,

Peter

Good thread ol picker! My 2 cents worth is that the plantation stuff should be used for paper and construction projects (houses, movie sets, whatever) and the OLD stuff should be left for fine furniture, craft and guitar makers . Simple theory really, if you can SEE the timber, then use the nice old stuff....if you ain't gonna see it, then use the new stuff.

Harvesting old timber for paper is DISGUSTING.

do you know which [if any] timbers available in australia are plantation grown?

Australian Grown Plantation Timber Species

Originally Posted by Deano

Australian Grown Plantation Timber Species

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