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Thread: flamenco guitar
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26th December 2008, 11:13 PM #1Awaiting Email Confirmation
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flamenco guitar
G,DAY GANG.
This is the first time I ,ve had call to write in this forum for advice which I,m hoping you fellas can furnish.Recently I bought a near new secondhand guitar [ADMIRA FLAMENCO] and to my disappointment it sounds more like a classical than a FLAMENENCO guitar. The sound which resonates from this guitar is typical of a classical,......mellow rich tones ...not the sound one would expect from a true flamenco guitar with that sharp tinny high pitch sound. I lowered the nut and the bridge to try to bring the strings closer to the top of the guitar hoping that would solve to some the problem within ecceptability without causing too much string buzz but this has had minor success.I was wondering if the saddle could be lowered or replaced in order to achieve my desired aim [to bring the strings closer the top of the guitar which I believe is the desired action of a flamenco guitar] HAVE any you guys got any input to my query?
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28th December 2008, 04:39 PM #2
Hi Blackbird and welcome.
Yes you can trim the saddle down. There may be some problems with intonation when you do but depending on the width of the saddle material you may be able to get around it. Kiwigeo knows a bit about this, try PM'ing him.
As for getting the sound to be brighter and more trebly you will need to stiffen the soundboards somehow, this would be fraught with peril, particularly if the instrument has resale value."We must never become callous. When we experience the conflicts ever more deeply we are living in truth. The quiet conscience is an invention of the devil." - Albert Schweizer
My blog. http://theupanddownblog.blogspot.com
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29th December 2008, 07:14 PM #3Awaiting Email Confirmation
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HI,SABASTIAAN.
Thankyou for the welcome aboard, I didn,t think anyone was out there! ,Its good to hear from you , yes there is enough material in the saddle to work with. and I think your right when it comes to major alterations such as stiffening the sound board best left alone. I only wan,t to be able to play this instrument for my own amusement and I not looking to aspire to higher levels although it would be nice.The alterations I,ve made have made some difference [a more tinnier sound that I was looking for,] although I think I can,t take it any further without a major dismantling of the instrument thanks again for your input ,it is appreciated.
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29th December 2008, 11:22 PM #4
Traditional Flamenco guitars are built from very light timber. This is what I've been told by a luthier I used to know. Is your guitar very light? Try to find out what guage strings the experts use as well, as this may have some bearing on the sound. Does the guitar have machine tuners or wooden pegs?
Buzza.
"All those who believe in psycho kinesis . . . raise my hand".
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30th December 2008, 06:33 PM #5Awaiting Email Confirmation
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Hi buzza.
I don,t think this guitar is heavy[not in my opinion but I really don,t have any other flamenco guitar to compare with.] but in saying this, I think that is where most of the trouble lays...Its been made specifically.as a classical ,with a flamenco guitar sticker put on it.......The guitar isn,t the dearest guitar on the market ,quite the contrary,probably the manufacturer has taken the view AS LONG as it looks like a flamenco guitar,put a sticker on it to verify the fact ,,who,s to know the difference.....The guitar doesn,t have pegs as most of the older style guitars have.I could be mistaken by stating that a lot of the more recent flamenco have machined tuners[its only the more customised guitars lutheriers that have retained this practice.I am going to lower the saddle to the specified string distance from the top at the 12th fret [3mm.. 6thstring ......2.5mm 1st string from the top sound board thats all I can do to try to remedied the problem to some exstent.
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31st December 2008, 06:19 AM #6
I would agree with you assessment that the instrument is heavy as most factory built guitars are over built, particularly the cheaper ones. This is to avoid warranty claims.
The other thing to try is changing the strings to something stiffer. I dont know much about string types but have heard flourocarbons are stiffer. Any good music shop should know."We must never become callous. When we experience the conflicts ever more deeply we are living in truth. The quiet conscience is an invention of the devil." - Albert Schweizer
My blog. http://theupanddownblog.blogspot.com
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1st January 2009, 01:29 PM #7Awaiting Email Confirmation
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HI Sabastaan 56
I have already started to lower the saddle as suggested to its minimum without jepadising the structure of the saddle or guitar,filled in the existing string holes with cedar wood and I am about to redrill at the lower level under the original holes 1/8''.As I said Sabastiaan I wan,t something that at least sounds like a flamenco and I realise that there will be some point of limittation to this end. One can only hope for the best result possible. Thank for you input. les.
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4th January 2009, 02:57 PM #8
Try brighter strings.
Also do a search on the mimf: www.mimf.com. These is some good stuff there about flamenco weight. It's not just weight though, flamenco blancas are made with brighter back and sides, like spanish cedar, and have less bracing on the top. It's not just the slightly lower action and shallower break angles.
If it's not too late, when you shave down the bridge keep the string anchor holes as high as possible so the angle over the bridge is minimised. That will help reduce sustain and harmonics.
Many modern flamenco guitars ahve machines heads, pegs are becoming uncommon. Yes they reduce head weight, but not by very much...
2cI'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?
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4th January 2009, 11:04 PM #9
I have a Flamenco guitar with pegs, and they no longer hold the tension, and slowly unwind the strings. I haven't looked at it in years, but I think it has a label inside saying hand built, and the luthier is Spanish. I got sick of it gong flat, and put it away until I work out how to make the pegs stay in place. Maybe I should put on Ebay.
Buzza.
"All those who believe in psycho kinesis . . . raise my hand".
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5th January 2009, 09:05 AM #10
You could also rough up the pegs with a bit of 400 grit. They burnish from the tension of being jammed into the holes.
"We must never become callous. When we experience the conflicts ever more deeply we are living in truth. The quiet conscience is an invention of the devil." - Albert Schweizer
My blog. http://theupanddownblog.blogspot.com
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6th January 2009, 08:46 AM #11
Or at worst get new pegs.
Maybe you should advertise it here before ebay if you decide to go that way. I would be interested in what the label says.I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?
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6th January 2009, 11:40 PM #12Awaiting Email Confirmation
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HI DAMIAN,
Thanks for your suggestion, The only trouble with it mate is by lowering the saddle [to try to get closer to the sound board] and leaving the original holes actualy makes the strings slightly too high off bone saddle without any tension which I found causes to much buzzing beyond the ecceptable level. So I had to lower them which has worked out not too bad considering I can only get a certain sound out of this guitar[ a bit like turning a classical piano into a hopsicone piano . Sorry to take so long in acknowledging your input but I haven,t been checking on the latest replies
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7th January 2009, 12:22 AM #13Awaiting Email Confirmation
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loose pegs
HI BUZZA
Just read about your trouble with the.pegs slipping on your flamenco guitar can I offer a suggestion.....I assume the pegs in question are slightly cone shape with close inspection. HOW about putting some form of brake on the peg [don,t laugh] What I have in mind is slivers of wood 3 in number placed evenly around the peg...... less than 1/8 in thickness by by 3/4 of the length of the peg. [ shape it like the flights on a dart] ...starting with nothing at the end of the peg and gradually gettingy thicker towards the top turning end. The idea is you wind the tension of the string as per normal ,.....when you have the desired tension you then press the peg into the recieving slots which would hold it in place [The recieving slots would be in the peg holes ] I THINK THIS WOULD WORK but you would have to be careful in the execution of the slot cutting in the head and the pegs themselves . What I would do is grab an old piece of wood about 30cm in length x 1cm thick x 6cm wide, drill a sample hole same diameter as the peg , cut 3 slots around the inside at equal distances .Get a piece of dowling to make the peg ,put some slithers of wood as described ,glue into place .After 24hrs place a nail down the oppisite end attach an old guitar string to
give it a test.....before attacking your precious guitar ,if it works go for it,if theres a flaw in the idea your lost nothing but a little time. Let me know how you go
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7th January 2009, 09:14 AM #14
You can get replacment ebony tuning pegs for about $14US a set plus shipping from lmi.
If that doesn't work and roughing up doesn't work them yes something like cork inserts might fix it.
Normally a bit of roughing should restore it though.I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?
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7th January 2009, 10:12 PM #15
I unpacked the old Flamenco guitar from its carry bag and this is what the label has written on it.
Antonio Ariza
Constructor de guitarras
(his signature in hand writing)
Cuesla Bomeroz, 33
Granada Espana
Ano 1976
I have taken some pictures, but will have to reduce them to put them up on the forum, so stand by for that.
The main join down the centre of the top has started to part company a little, and on the back, the same, but to a very slight degree. I really think a proper set of strings, and a little sanding of the pegs will make it quite plyable. It does have the authentic Flamenco sound, there is no daoubt about that. The body of a Flamenco is smaller than other guitars, and this one is no exception.Buzza.
"All those who believe in psycho kinesis . . . raise my hand".
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