Thread: Guitar Necks

Welcome Chisler!,

I am affraid that there are no adsolute answers to any of you questions.

When it comes to grain orientation on the neck, well it is generally considered that quarter is better, as it is more rigid and stable, however rock maple is used abundantly as flat sawn with no problems. It depend who you talk to.

In terms of guitar body timbers, IMO the main thing to consider with the rosewood is weight. Might need chambering to reduce the weight. Choice of timber is all about taste. there are some timbers you deinately wouldn't use for bodies, however there is more freedom to experiment IMO than other elements of the guitar. Everyone generally agrees that guitar body timber does influence tone, however the degree to which it influences is again, depends who you talk to.

Book matching of tops is mostly as you state due to stock availability, however I think aesthetics has something to do with it as well. I love a nice bookmatched top.

Cheers,

Peter

Thanks Peter,

Yeah, i get what your saying about the timber etc, i agree it depends a lot on who you talk to & it is a personal preference thing.
I also like a bookmatched pair.

I will test out a few things & see how i go, i guess the most important thing is the quality of the craftsmanship of the finished instrument.

All very interesting, i will add a few pictures as i go & get some opinions, good or bad.

Thanks Again.

Chisler

G'Day Chisler,
Take note of what Peter has told you, quarter sawn timber is more stable.
But on that note I have a lot of customers that have asked for neck woods sawn on the back off, but these are all thin pieces of figured wood used for laminating necks, As long as the timber is well seasoned and dried correctly you will not have any problems.
Some timbers show more figure milled on the back off, Birds eye Blackwood if cut on the quarter you will lose all of the birds eye figure.
Regards Bob

Originally Posted by chisler

Thanks Peter,

Yeah, i get what your saying about the timber etc, i agree it depends a lot on who you talk to & it is a personal preference thing.
I also like a bookmatched pair.

I will test out a few things & see how i go, i guess the most important thing is the quality of the craftsmanship of the finished instrument.

All very interesting, i will add a few pictures as i go & get some opinions, good or bad.

Thanks Again.

Chisler

Thanks Bob,

I see what you mean about the figured nature of backsawn timber, i went to a timber mill yesterday & the owner said just that as well & showed me various cuts & how they differ.

It's all very interesting, i'll see how i go with things & post some results.

Thanks Again

Chisler

Originally Posted by chisler

Is it absolutely nesessary to have quarter sawn timber stock for necks or just good stable timber?

Mate, id say try to get some WELL SEASONED quarter sawn wood. Thats possibly the second most important aspect, after your choice of breed. Anything that isnt up to grade, no matter which way its cut isnt going to help, so just be sure its good n dry to start with!

I also want to Laminate some boards on there edge to achieve different effects, do i need to have quarter sawn stock for this particular laminated application, somehow it seems to be a waste of quarter sawn stock or is it still important?

From what ive learnt, you can have it either way, but I personally preffer to add two 1+mm strips of something you know is pretty solid, like ebony or carbon fibre strips/spine/s.
Depending on what you use, it shouldnt really matter. I'm just overly cautious about time and tension. Suffice to say, the truss rod should shoulder most of any over flexing.

I know where i can buy some Aust Rosewood is this suitable for electric guitar necks & same again, does it need to be quarter sawn stock & also as above for laminating does it need to be quarter sawn?.

Cant say ive used much aussie rose, so "no comment" there.

Is Aust Rosewood suitable for electric guitar bodies?

Again "no comment" But i cant imagine why not. Lets face it anything that grows in Australia has got to be AWESOME!!!

If the Rosewood is suitable for bodies, what would be the best, a solid one piece body or use a 1 piece rosewood top of say 20mm thickness on some other timber as the back?.

Most bodies are about 40mm thick, and if your going to use a feature face, they average from about 8mm (binding thickness), up to about 15 to 20mm for arched tops.
The point of that is to hide the face edge behind the binding around the body.
Heres one ive been working on today. Should give you an idea on a few points you have mentioned.

Is there any reason why electric guitar bodies are normally made up from a number of boards joined to form the top etc or is this just a stock size availablility thing?

Shouldnt really matter as long as you get good solid joins, but there are always potential bowing issues with a 1 piece body. Its not always easy to find a single large piece of quater sawn wood big enough to get a whole body out of. And if you have the grain on a turn "and it has a little moisture", its going to bow over time.
Easy way to fix that is rip it up the middle and flip them over to butt ends. It'll take the potential stress out of the total width.
I hope that helps a little. Good luck with it mate and DONT PANNIC if something goes funky,,,, Stop, think, ask the forum, think, think, re-invent,,,, all good

Some good quotes made in your reply, Aussieborn,
But take note of my reply in this thread, Some species show more colour and figure milled on the back off, and if well seasoned perfectly dry and sliced thin then laminated, Good glue, good join, there will not be any problems if there was, well I can not understand why luthiers that have been building guitars for 20 years or more ask me for timber cut on the back off.
Some customers like a mix of colour, Figured Myrtle, Quilted Myrle, Commpression blackwood, Fiddleback blackwood, Blackhearted Sassafras, Each to his own.
Everyone wants to build a guitar that stands out from the crowd.
Regards Bob

Originally Posted by AussieOzBorn

Mate, id say try to get some WELL SEASONED quarter sawn wood. Thats possibly the second most important aspect, after your choice of breed. Anything that isnt up to grade, no matter which way its cut isnt going to help, so just be sure its good n dry to start with!

I also want to Laminate

fix your quotes jeremiah

An Other point to consider is the climate where you live.
this will have a bearing on wood movement.
Regards
Bob

Originally Posted by woodturner777

Some good quotes made in your reply, Aussieborn,
But take note of my reply in this thread, Some species show more colour and figure milled on the back off, and if well seasoned perfectly dry and sliced thin then laminated, Good glue, good join, there will not be any problems if there was, well I can not understand why luthiers that have been building guitars for 20 years or more ask me for timber cut on the back off.
Some customers like a mix of colour, Figured Myrtle, Quilted Myrle, Commpression blackwood, Fiddleback blackwood, Blackhearted Sassafras, Each to his own.
Everyone wants to build a guitar that stands out from the crowd.
Regards Bob

I also want to Laminate

Thanks AussieOzBorn,

Yeah some good comments there, it would appear from what i have been reading from some professional Luthiers that Quartersawn timber is the best for necks, not only for strength but stabillity also over long periods of time.
Obviously you can use other cuts as well but the more figured the neck timber is the weaker it is also & stabillity is not as good over time.

I tend to agree with your comments about using a single piece body & the warping senario, hence the original question about this.

I agree, if it's aussie it just has to be good

Although i am a newby at woodwork i am an Engineer & machinist of many years so i have decided to have a closer look at things as i go along, for learning purposes.
I am designing & drawing the guitar at the moment before i make a cut on any timber.

I have setup various things to study the harmonics from different types of timber & verify all the results on some test equipment & an Oscilloscope.
I have extensively tested a few pickups as well, single coil, humbuckers etc & have decided to redesign & wind my own pickups & machine my own bridge, saddles, the nut & use my own electronics design.
I have a pickup winder now.
The Machine Heads i will buy at this stage & have settled on some Gotoh products.

Just my thought's:

Disgruntled thought's at that!

I visited a couple of young blokes the other day that play guitar, there a lot around here at Tamworth & they setup some things & played a few tunes with there guitars, these guys are good but boy do they lack equipment.
With mass produced guitars & the cheap rubbish from China it would seem the whole planet is losing the plot as far as what the guitars sounded like in the bygone years even though most of these as well were mass produced.

If we want a car we don't buy a Rickshaw, if we want a guitar we shouldn't buy from China, this being the case that means that 99.98% of the guitars in shops today aren't worth buying as there manufactured in china.
Can't remember any Chinese guitar players or builders, rockin Bwuce Ree maybe Hahaha!
If this keeps up future generations won't know what real guitars sounded like except on records or cd's.

I am sure you guys will agree, if were going to make hand made guitars we may as well make them as good as we can & lets bring some sound back & develop the sound from there!
At the moment it would seem things have taken a backward step in this regard due to mass production & greed.

BB King said in the 90's that he didn't think it was possible but finally the world had lost the rythm, lets not lose the sound as well!

Thanks Guys
chisler

Originally Posted by Andrew_B

fix your quotes jeremiah

Bite my nub Andy pandy

Chisler,
We could do without the rascist comments about the Chinese

Originally Posted by jeffhigh

Chisler,
We could do without the rascist comments about the Chinese

Agreed, the French are much more deserving of such taunts
To be honest, I really didnt notice any insults to the Chinese, only the "Bwuce Wee" pun and that doesnt really rate as a racist comment, does it?
Toung in cheek, if anything.

Originally Posted by chisler

I am sure you guys will agree, if were going to make hand made guitars we may as well make them as good as we can & lets bring some sound back & develop the sound from there!
At the moment it would seem things have taken a backward step in this regard due to mass production & greed.

BB King said in the 90's that he didn't think it was possible but finally the world had lost the rythm, lets not lose the sound as well!

Thanks Guys
chisler

Can't say I do agree with you on much of what you have said. On behalf of the "young fellas" I can say that there is nothing wrong with my rhythm or sound for that matter. When all you have to your name is $500, then it is a chineese made guitar that you buy. What choice do you have? Is what you are saying to all the "young blokes" is wait until you save up $2,200 and buy a strat before you can learn to play? Back in the day did a les paul cost $4,500? I doubt it. Don't go blaming the chinese when they are producing the best value for money imo. Not the best guitars, but definately the best value for money.

Peter

Originally Posted by peterbrown

Can't say I do agree with you on much of what you have said. On behalf of the "young fellas" I can say that there is nothing wrong with my rhythm or sound for that matter. When all you have to your name is $500, then it is a chineese made guitar that you buy. What choice do you have? Is what you are saying to all the "young blokes" is wait until you save up $2,200 and buy a strat before you can learn to play? Back in the day did a les paul cost $4,500? I doubt it. Don't go blaming the chinese when they are producing the best value for money imo. Not the best guitars, but definately the best value for money.
Peter

LMAO @ "young fellas",,,,, stop it, im only 38,,,,, yessss only 38!
As for rythm, i pick it all up by ear. Cant read a note, but I can grasp almost any song's "nature" by the feel of it. Not that i profess any genius at getting my fingers to do what my brain wishes.
I would agree that your right about chinese guitars being value for money. The simple fact is cost of labour and materials, the western world just cant compete with.
I have however heard of several asian parts being produced totally out of whack with "standard components" and measurements, not that ive personally come across any. And from what im lead to belive, Gibson doesnt seem to mind having its Maestro necks made there, or am i misguided with that? Either way id like to know.
I have come across a few dodgey asian bridges in my time. Cheaper metals almost always results in sloppy threads and ive had my fair share of with stripped out allenkey bolts.
In most cases, you get what you pay for. If you want true quality, local guarantees and service, pay for it.
With the way we are going with disposable EVERYTHING, and recycling/land fill, im sure eventually we are going to have to adopt a higher standard of product for lack of materials. Either that or a huge tax on disposable and sub standard products that dont meet the mark. That would just put the "product" at the higher quality products price and defeat the purpose of its production. So ultimately we end up raising the required standard for retail sale.