Thread: A mando

Deja vu.....

Jim

Nice. Where did you get the plan? I need to do a mando sometime - even if just to replace my old beater that is literally falling apart.

Peter

Very nice Sebastiaan, Regards Bob.

Originally Posted by Sebastiaan56

I gave my player for a charity auction a few weeks ago so I had plenty of motivation to finish this one off. Spruce top, NGR sides, NGR & Cheesewood back, Cooktown Ironwood fretboard and bridge, figured Blackwood headplate and sides, Fijian Mahogony neck.

There are still a lot of "learning experiences" in this instrument but its loud and starting to play in.

Very nice work Sebastiaan. Lovely indeed.

I was wondering a little about the sonic changes in an acoustic instrument and how a newly built guitar/mando/uke/violin will change it's timbre over time, and also whether this is something that is ever-evolving through time, or does it hit a
certain level , then maintain a certain signature tone? Don't want to sound too confusing but have always wondered about the process of playing an acoustic insrument 'in'.

Sorry for the off-tangent question , Seb.

Originally Posted by oz tradie

As I'm a solid /chambered builder of electrics , I was wondering a little about the sonic changes in an acoustic instrument and how a newly built guitar/mando/uke/violin will change it's timbre over time, and also whether this is something that is ever-evolving through time, or does it hit a
certain level , then maintain a certain signature tone? Don't want to sound too confusing but have always wondered about the process of playing an acoustic insrument 'in'.

I have wondered about this as well Stu and since this is my first spruce instrument I guess Im going to find out. These is some interesting discussion on the DelCamp forum on the subject http://www.delcamp.net/forum/en/view...p?f=11&t=27056 but as Alan Carruth points out its hard to get objective. But so many people have pointed it out over so many years it must happen.

I know a lot of old instruments get repaired, bass bars get replaced, refinished etc so Im not sure we know exactly what an original Strad/Guaneri sounded like. Another point to consider is tuning, when Lloyd Loar built his famous mandos the defacto standard for A was 415hz. When tuned at 415 they sound ordinary, when tuned to 440 they are master instruments. Of course now they are played at 440..... doubtful if Loar could have forseen that one.

To hear the tone of some older instruments check out Tone Poets by Dave Grisman. Recorded on an original Loar F5 (@440hz) and an original Martin D45. Both instruments are in original condition.

Thank you for the kind comments everyone

Thanks for withstanding my slight digression. Great link info as well, Sebastiaan
Tap tone tuning is a very in depth and interesting subject which also branches off
into many other avenues of build techniques. It's as complicated as you wish it to be
and from my readings through some of the available literature, also becomes nothing short of an allmighty lifelong journey in the search for the elusive perfect build technique.
Let's hope we all live long enough to share a bit of that knowledge, eh.

BTW how does she sound and what characteristics do you aim for in a mando build?

Have you got any more close ups of the back ? It looks great.

If you want to learn something about tap tuning or Chladni Plate tuning in mandolins I published an article in JAAMIM a few years ago and it is available on my web page. Try http://www.petercoombe.com/jaamim7.html Once you work out what is happening when you tap a free plate, tap tuning is not such a great mystery. The real problem is interpreting the results.

BTW how does she sound and what characteristics do you aim for in a mando build?

A couple of weeks after stringing up and the sound is changing. Not as tinny / new stringish, ie getting more mellow, a more balanced sound across the register.

I am after a mando with a solid bottom end, crystal clear high end and well defined mid range , but then again who isnt.... My reasoning for the design was that the bent top promotes the higher end bacause of the inherent stresses on the soundboard and the choice of spruce for the soundboard, the largish box promotes the lower registers and the scale length (452mm) should help balance the middle register. It is still too early to determine if I have been successful. I built one with a cedar soundboard and it was a nice rounded instrument, very much the sound I like so I figured once played in the spruce would be more so. We will see/hear. I'll get some more photos on the weekend. Thx for the interest,

Peter, thanks for the link, have you found this chaldni method useful for producing, ie as a predictive tool? or do you use it to confirm what your ears tell you when tap tuning?

Yes it is a useful predictive tool, but with limitations, amd mostly in terms for maintaining consistency from instrument to instrument. If the frequencies of the modes are the same on two different mandolins, then they will sound identical, or near enough identical. If you match mode 4 on the back and top in an oval soundhole mandolin, then I will get a consistently good sound. If I don't match mode 4, then I can predict that the sound of the completed mandolin will not be anywhere near as good. The absolure frequencies are not important, it is the relative frequencies that are important. I am preparing another paper that will describe all this, but I can't seem to find the time to finalise it. Unfortunately it is not possible to predict the fine details of the sound of the completed mandolin. So, if you match mode 4 in the top and back, you will end up with a very satisfying fine sounding mandolin, but it will be different from the previous one probably because the physical preoperties of the wood are different and thus other modes are different. It is almost impossible to get all the modes the same, so there will always be differences. Now this is all very well, but it is not terribly useful if you don't know how to make a good sounding mandolin in the first place. Once you work that out, and that takes a lot of experience, and years of work, then the Chladni plate tuning method is useful for maintaining consistency. So, what happens is I fluke an incredible sounding mandolin, but all the modal frequencies have been written down during the construction. Now I can reproduce that flukey good sound fairly closely and consistently. This works for oval hole mandolins and F hole mandolins, but you won't be able to match mode 4 in F hole mandolins, so the situation is somewhat more complicated for F soundholes. Anyone who thnks they can predict the sound of an instrument just from the modal frequencies is kidding themselves.