Thread: Suzuki 12 string rebuild ( hopefully)

I learnt a lot form several repairs that I attempted, some worked, some didnt. Great project.

I take it you are repairing this guitar to get some experience under your belt? If so, go for it.
I'm guessing this guitar doesn't have alot of sentimental value to you, since you were given it, but that would be another reason for repairing it.
But if you are not expecting much from the tone, and if the top is bellying up (very common on ply tops, especially 12 strings), and it's not worth much, then why are you fixing it?
I am definitely not trying to put you off, OK? I don't know how much work you've done to guitars in the past. If you are starting out, then this would be an ideal instrument to fix up.
Good luck with it.
Don't forget to post some photos so we can have a better look at it.

If it was me I'd be changing out the ply top for a solid spruce top. The bridge is failing and theres a good chance if you try and lift it off youre going to take half the old top with it anyway. I bet the intonation isnt great on the thing as well so a new top and bridge wilol allow you to correct same.

Hi all

Thanks for the replys

I will stick some pics in the next post for you viewing pleasure


Oddly enough the guitar does have some sentamental value.

Back when I was in my teens ( 20y ago ) my older brothers friends used to come over and have jams sessions.

This 12 string turned up, for a year or 2. Not sure who owned it originally. My brothers friend ended up with it.
Years later we both turned up in Brisbane and have been freinds since.

Anyway he had it for years in Melb, left it with his mum when he moved to Brisvegas. His mum chucked it in the skip after a few years, it was rescued broken and water damaged by her daughter, who kept it until last christmas, when my friend came down from Brissy and brought it over.

You get the idea.

It would be nice to play it again.

When I played it last it was only about 10 years old..... [nostalgia smiley here]

Here are the pics

I am also doing it for experience, I reckon its probably a pretty hard repair. If I can pull it off to a playable extent that's enough for me at the moment.

if I can amke it play and sound good then thats a bonus.


Martin that's not such a bad idea. It would let me get inside it and check all the bracing too, and the end result would (could ) be a decent git.

Actually a pretty easy repair.
Having the neck off is a good thing, most of these old 12 strings become unplayable due to high action and removing a dowelled on neck to do a reset is a difficult job. the work is already done for you.
It looks like the neck heel is a nice clean break.
First thing- the right glue, I would use "titebond original wood glue", not epory or Aquadhere etc.
Glue the heel back together (with the neck still off)being sure you get perfect alignment.
I would not risk trying to pull off the bridge, I would work some glue under it with a feeler guage and clamp .
Then you need to clean up the neck joint and check the neck angle.
Will write further got to go now

Thanks Jeff

Not having to get the neck off is good. The heel break is quite clean, althought the finish on this guitar is quite thick, so its a bit rough round the edges.


I'm planning to start with fixing the broken heel.

Then to either fix the top as is, or replace it.

If I purchased a spruce top, would I need to order one for a 12 string( thicker), or is it all in the bracing?

I currently have some yellow PVA glue which i'm using for my builds, I think that will be OK. Its not the generic white PVA.

Also it seems the fret board and bridge have been really water damaged, thats the pale greyish color. It might be worth replacing the top, bridge, and fretboard.

Or else pull the frets and plane it down a bit.

Should i use the exisiting dowels, or shave the off flush with the body, and replace with new, or even a bolt-on arrangment?

The dowels seem in OK condition.

Ok Slash, Dont take offence at this but the questions you are asking are telling me that you should NOT attempt a top replacement, remove the bridge or pull frets.
Top replacement is a difficult job, I would rather build a guitar from scratch.
The problem with trying to remove the bridge on a laminated top is that if you use heat to loosen the glue, as you would on a solid top, you are likely to to delaminate the top.
likewise, unless you know what you are doing, pulling frets can cause damage, and refretting is not a job to do unless you know what you are doing and have the correct tools.
Take this in easy steps, first glue the heel back on (dry run first to check your clamping arrangement. If the fingerboard is coming loose from the heel end of the neck glue it back on
Work out a clamping arrangement for the back edge of the bridge. either a long reach clamp or a couple of bolts though the pin holes with a Caul (backing board) will do it. Dry run and then glue.
Do that and then lets talk about neck angle. do not be tempted to glue the neck back on yet

I agree with Jeff. Just do a repair job on the existing bridge and get the neck patched up and glued back on. A top replacement is a major job and its a big bite for someone on their first repair job.

Cool

Thanks guys- no offence taken. Thanks for the advice



Replacing the top does sound pretty involved.

Will see how I go with the heel next week. It should be easy to clamp in place while gluing.

The hard part with re-gluing the fret board will be getting enough glue in without taking the fretboard off.

OK so next week turned into a couple of weeks


I have tried a couple of jigs to glue the heel back on and the fret board at the same time. I realised there was a radius to the fretboard that needs to be taken into account, othwiae the edges of the fretboard won't be glued.


Eventually I planed an angle onto a couple of 4X1.5" pine lengths, and flipped one around to get a convex V shape. This was to ensure the edges ot the fretboard were clamped effectively as per the radius of the fretboard. The pics below show the V profile. I have measured the nut, 12th fret and Sound-hole-end width of the fretboard and planed that v into the Jig along its length ( hope that makes sense?).

FYI- the nut width is 49mm, the 12 fret width is 58,and the sound-hole width(20th fret) is 60mm.

I then cut out a couple of basic cauls to clamp the neck onto the jig.

One effect of this was to completely straighten the "bend" in the fretboard where it had lifted of the neck at about the 15th fret. It is now completely straight.

Woo hoo!!

The fret Board was re-glued by filling the Truss rod hole with yellow PVA, and wiggling the fretboard until the glue oozed out each side of the neck, about 15 mins of manipulating.

Heres some pics.

Imageshack - neckjig2small


Imageshack - neckjig1small


Imageshack - neckjig5small


Imageshack - neckjig4small


Imageshack - neckjig3small


Imageshack - neckjig7small


http://img9.imageshack.us/i/neckjig6small.jpg/


http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5350/dscf0993x.jpg