Thread: violin from scratch

first thing i did was to search for a free program to plot sine curves ,
found one at http://www.mathgv.com/index.html thank you to the auther Greg VanMullem
mathqv is a lot more powerfull than it needs to be for this , works well

after some stuffing around learning the program i started getting some where

using
sin(x/(Width/6.25))x1/2 Height + 1/2 Height
in the "add 2d function "page plots out the sine curve ( some fudging of the numbers is needed in th -y scale ) ,
starting with the tail to heal mesurment and ploting in 2mm height incraments i plotted the first sine wave , length of the violin and the height of 1/2 the rib height (16mm ), then using those heights plotted the center lower bout , lower point to point , center center bout , upper point to point , center upper bout , center lower bout to lower point and center upper bout to upper point ,

now i can draw the violin again and use these plots to draw a 2mm contor map of the violin so jigs can be made

Great project. Looking forward to your progress updates.

i looked into violin building a while ago

ALOT of veryy arrogant people lol

theres alot of info and build documentations around the net if you search

im dying to build one (just cause i love the curves and contours, and my grandfather buit one before he died)

sat down and started to plot the sine curves on the plan

found out sine waves measured on a 45 deg angle , dont line up with sine waves at 90deg so didnt use 1/2 the plots i made
so now the contors need a bit more refining ,but cince ill trace them off the plan ,ill refine them then ,

plan on cutting gig's from 4mm MDF supplyed as door packers ( free ) on a scroll saw
and making the mold out of fiberglass renforced plaster forgot to tell you ,the violin will be made from carbon fiber , so the moulds will be vacume bagged while the epoxy sets
going to try for as thin as posable so 2 layers to start with , lol 0.5mm , then see if it folds in half when i sting it , might need a 3rd layer in the center or five layers if its too high pitched , will use West System 105/206 epoxy for the carbon fiber and most joins and 5min araldite for the back plate so boiling will allow it to be pulled apart

live in Darwin so a timber violin wont last long in high humidity , end up looking like a bananna in no time

plan on using an induser on the bridge and recording the output to modify its sound
found some good programs for audio mesurment , " Tone & CircFFT " from "Tolvan Data" at Tolvan , its a tone generator and audio plotter

yes andrew , violin makers arn't the most open people to get info off
my grandfather used to make violins in the 1920's europe , learnt how to draw one from his notes

looks great,
i look foward to seeing the build process you use

A challenging project for a first build. A few comments/questions:

What is the nature of the CF material you'll be using for the sides, back and top of the instrument? Whereabouts are you sourcing the CF from? Its sounds like this instrument is going to be the result of your own design and construction procedure. Im not trying to disuade you from your project but you've set yourself up for a huge challenge.

You mention using 5 minute Araldite to glue the back on the instrument....I would steer clear of this stuff for any instrument building use. I've found the quality of Araldite not that good compared to other available epoxy adhesives. 5 minutes is also not alot of time to get a joint fitted up and clamped.

You mention "boiling" to undo the Araldite glue on the back of the instrument. A bit of heat is all that is required to undo an epoxy joint (ie no water required).

For anybody attempting their first violin I always recommend a good text such as Courtnall and Johnson's book "The Art of Violin Making".

I wish you luck with this violin....will be watching with great interest.

Cheers Martin

What is the nature of the CF material you'll be using for the sides, back and top of the instrument? but you've set yourself up for a huge challenge.

carbon fiber was sourced from Ebay @ $17 p/m2 great price for new stock ( local shop sell similar for $160p/m2) , its a 3000strand 8hardness twill weave , 3k8hTwill "Blackweave" brand by Hexcell , i bought 20lm since post was the killer
also purchased some coloured "carbonfiber?" red , silver and blue ( the aluminium coated fiberglass) might use some of that on the chin rest , tail peace , finger board , , haven't decided yet , 1st one will be to test the tone , properly sound like a chain saw at certain harmonics's , have a few ideas to tone it down

You mention "boiling" to undo the Araldite glue on the back of the instrument. A bit of heat is all that is required to undo an epoxy joint (ie no water required).

cince the west system self destructs at 150c and 5min araldite at 80c thought boiling water wont over heat it (water wont hurt it ) , still might use a timber neck so an oven might be better , will look at other epoxies for a round 80c breakdown temp

For anybody attempting their first violin I always recommend a good text such as Courtnall and Johnson's book "The Art of Violin Making".

my grandfather's notes have a lot of info 50 odd years of tinkering wort's and all , i did by a crap book "wont mention the name of it (slander) " haven't seen the text you mention but have been trawling the net for 6 months , haven't seen a text witch show's you how to draw a violin/viola/cello with a compass from the bridge measurement
no need for purfin , also the corner and end blocks are obsolete ( tone control )

thanks for the feed back kiwigeo, yes i have jumped in the deep end ,but that's what hobbies are for

Hi,

And welcome to the adiction of instrument making. It is not a hobby, it is an adiction. This will be a very interesting build to watch, and i look forward to watching the process unfold. I do have a question for you. Why use a sine curve for the top? is this standard for violins? Why not consider a spline curve or a back to back spiral curve? May have a more natural curve to it? Just a thought. Look forward to more.

Cheers,

Peter

violins traditionally have a sine wave form , length wise and across the violin as well
sound waves are in a sine wave proportion so i figured that was the best shape
the dimensions of the violin while drawing it always double ,1/2x 1x 2x 4x 8x are the only measurements used , when a note is 2x the hz , its one octave higher , so the violin harmonics produce the same note 1 octive lower and all 3 octaves above ,an acoustic guitar does not have the 1/2 sized points either side so only produces the 3 octaves above

as for the addiction , ever tried "pen turning" , have a look at the page in this forum , a great way to get your perfection skills tuned

Hi there,
Preparing a violin from the scratch is a very good project that you have undertaken. I would love to have a look at it after you have completed preparing the violin and also provided the final touch to it. It would a very good feeling to have undertaken such an interesting project. Thanks for sharing the information and looking forward to have a look at the resultant product.

Sawdust,

There are quite a few articles in the Guild of American Luthiers (GAL) quarterly Magazine covering violin design and construction. PM me your postal address and I'll mail you photocopies of a couple of articles.

Cheers Martin

thanks for the offer kiwigeo , i will take you up on that and have sent my address to your PM box

i am no expert at building violins so any input is welcomed

started to make the mould , the mould was pored out of cornice cement with fiberglass strands through in for extra strength ,
a peace of 10mm perspex was laid over the top to obtain a flat surface ,
once it set i pealed off the perspex and glued on the contour's traced to tracing paper ,
used a 1/2 inch router bit to remove the centre at 2mm increments , cornice cement turns back into a liquid and doesn't damage the router tip ( old one anyway )

cleaned out the mould and rough carved while plaster still soft, left it over night and fine carved and rough sanded the mold , have just rubbed topcoat ( smooth ) over it and waiting for it to dry ,

once topping and sanding is complete i will have to leave it to dry completely before sealing with epoxy and prepping with mould release

G'day SDS,

I'm interested in your mold making process and have a few questions.

Is the topcoat you talk about more plaster? The mold surface still looks quite porous at this stage, will you be filling it further before sealing with epoxy. Do you plan to finish the mold to produce a finished part or will you be polishing the part after it's been pulled?

Great project by the way, look forward to seeing it come together.

yes the topcoat is the "plasterboard" fine plaster ( premixed ) after sanding back i gave the hole mold a top coat , and sanded it back again , then applied epoxy to seal the surface , will rub that back with 280 grit and re coating with epoxy ( 1st epoxy coat has basically been sucked into the plaster )

yes plan on the finished product coming away from the mold , but might still spray one layer of epoxy with UV additive to protect it from the sun ( fogging) , could also put the UV layer in first and cast over it , will still have to trim the edges and clean them up

the vacuum pump will be a refrigerator compressor sucking on a small compressor bottle ,