Thread: Harman Kardon HK 3480 / B&W Speakers 604

Hi.

I have B&W DM 604 series 3 speakers as well, and as luck would have it, a HK Receiver (but an older model)

I can vouch for the fact that for stereo material, the HK amp didn't cut the mustard (it was fine for movies, but it was driving 5 speakers and an active subwoofer) At low listening levels, you wouldn't notice much, but everything turned to mush when the volume cranked up. My problem was solved with a decent power amp inserted in the system just for stereo material. I have formed the opinion that multichannel amps really don't seem to have it for stereo, although some might - I just haven't come across any yet.

The other thing to take notice of before you rush out and spend money, is system setup.

When you play stereo sources, are you running just two front speakers?

What have you done about speaker positioning?

The 604's have plenty of bass, and they ship with plugs to insert in the ports to modify the sound for difficult rooms. Are they in or out?

I'd be getting a loan of that 'booster' amp from the shop to see if the problem is amplification, room or setup. Maybe you could convince the shop dude to come help debug the problem too!

In the olden days, the popular wisdom was to split the cost of the system 3 ways - 1/3 for sources, 1/3 for Amplification, and 1/3 for speakers. Unless the price of 604's has come down a lot, you either have too much speaker, or not enough amp by that measure...

woodbe

Beg pardon, just realised you have a stereo receiver, not a home theatre job like mine, so please ignore my multichannel comments

I'd still try setup of the amp, room positioning of the speakers and lastly more power...

woodbe.

I run a Yamaha Stereo Amplifier for my CDs, DVDs, TV, Radio and Turntable (Yes I have a vinyl collection).

I also have 2 x 8ohm JAMO speakers and 2 x 4ohm KRIX BRIX.

I used to run the JAMOs as front speakers and KRIX as my rear.

When I bought my Loewe Widescreen the guy who came to set it up and route the sound through my Stereo system said I should dump the JAMOs as they draw too much power from the amp. (They live in the shed now ).

I now have just the 2 KRIX Brix out front about 4 feet off the floor and they sound great.

By the way, if you can Chromis, try playing some vinyls and see if they sound better.

My brother is an audiophile and doesn't own any CDs. He has a magnificent and very expensive turntable and a library of about 3,000 LPs. Swears they sound infinitely superior to CDs.

Don't talk to the floggers at the big retail chains, go into a Specialist hifi shop. They are always happy to help because you may end up as a customer.
Cheers

When you play stereo sources, are you running just two front speakers?

Yep just the two front B&W

What have you done about speaker positioning?

They have been in two houses in different locations and they sound the same.

The 604's have plenty of bass, and they ship with plugs to insert in the ports to modify the sound for difficult rooms. Are they in or out?

Doesnt matter, in or out they are the same.

I'd be getting a loan of that 'booster' amp from the shop to see if the problem is amplification, room or setup. Maybe you could convince the shop dude to come help debug the problem too!

Unless the price of 604's has come down a lot, you either have too much speaker, or not enough amp by that measure...

I guess I thought I may need to add the booster at some point but I wasnt sure if the dude in the shop was feeding me bull. It's hard to know when you are listening to their gear in their showroom if you will get the same sound.

Chromis.

Speaker positioning. This is not about being in a room, or in another house, it's about the size of the room, where the speakers are in relation to the listeners, how far apart the speakers are situated, and how far from the rear wall they are placed, etc.

Other things that can effect speaker response is the room construction, furnishings and the coupling of the speaker to the floor.

Given that you aren't hearing what you want to, this is the first thing I'd experiment with. Bigger speakers like the 604's are a challenge for SWMBO's and if they get their way, they'll be backed against the wall or into the corners, which is exactly where they shouldn't be..

Google is your friend. There is a pretty comprehensive guide on the Cardas website, available as PDF:

http://www.cardas.com/pdf/roomsetup.pdf

Website here:

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?ar...ing=Room+Setup

Shop auditions for hifi gear is a very flawed method of selecting components because they always sound different at home. It's not always practical to bring components home on test, but that is my preferred method. Sometimes, I have taken my stuff into the shop so I can A/B it with theirs and get a better idea of what the differences are in the new component.

hope this helps.

woodbe.

And another more practical guide to placement:

http://guerrillaaudio.com/store/Guer...oundPart5.html

Woah, what do those guys at Guerrilla Audio smoke? Whatever it is, they should lay off it for a while and come back to reality.

Their room placement advice is fine, but when they get to their products they get somewhat...errr...fantabulous:

"When the concrete floor is finished,you have a huge electromagnet just under the surface of the floor!" (umm, where's the power supply for this earthed electromagnet?)

"Don’t use a “surge strip”. Why can’t I use the power strip filter like the one on my computer? Because a surge strip prevents dynamic current delivery." (obviously those capacitors in my amp's power supply are there just for show)

"Make sure your components have the same AC polarity." (I think making sure that they are all at the same earth potential would be better)

"The result is a wire that sounds way better than wire annealed the standard way. It costs more to do it this way, but I can hear the difference and I’m sure you can too." (can I see the results of a double blind test on that, thanks?)

Ahhh, I just love audio snake oil.

Haha. Notice I only pasted Page 5, not the whole topic

woodbe.

I think speaker placement might help but in this case I think the lacking component might be the AMP.

Originally Posted by chromis

I think speaker placement might help but in this case I think the lacking component might be the AMP.

Fair enuff. Just make sure that the shop allows you to take the demo home overnight or on the weekend to make sure it does the job for you. If they won't, find another shop.

woodbe.

As usual in HIFI things get over complicated.

Booster amp....... WHAT THE.

You have a stereo amplifier.. pre amp and power amp in the same box.


Booster amp?

Sounds like the amp you have is gutless.

So they have this gutless amp and they are happy to sell you ( knowing its probaly gutless) and there is this other power amp they want to sell you and use the preamp in your existing amp????

Why didn't they offer you a bigger complete amp or a seperate pre and power amp.

What is the power output of this amp you have. Real figures RMS into what impedance at what distortion.

Anything else is just a side issue.

Power output isn't everything but when there isn't enough its most of it.

I'm not surprised people get confused about HIFI when there is vast quantities of utter CRAP curculating.

Electro magnets in the floor......thats one I havn't heard what utter CRAP.
Treat any thing else the same author has written or said as extermely suspect, no matter how sensible it may seem.

HIFI marketing is like living between a chicken farm, a piggery and a cattle feed lot.... it dosn't matter which way the wind is blowing you still smell.....

Basics chaps basics.

I bought the 602's for my BIL with a Rotel amp.

They sound fantastic.

As Soundman says, they sold you a dog of an amp. Those speakers like most of the B&W gear is pretty good.

Originally Posted by Soundman

31st Dec 2006, 11:52 PM

Easy, soundman. You need to get out more!

Happy New Year!

The good thing is that the amp Chromis needs has probably gone down in price while he works out that he needs it. Also, most preamps cost as much or more than a reasonable integrated amp, so it's probably not as bad as it appears.

woodbe.

Originally Posted by woodbe

Easy, soundman. You need to get out more!

Happy New Year!

The good thing is that the amp Chromis needs has probably gone down in price while he works out that he needs it. Also, most preamps cost as much or more than a reasonable integrated amp, so it's probably not as bad as it appears.

woodbe.

Woodbe I think you just gave me a virtual gender change. The he is a she

Yes I know I got sold a dud but in my own defense and not having a good understanding in regards to the technical side I did put some effort into the buy.

I went to about 8 or 9 shops around Perth including a few specialty shops. Listened to stacks of different systems that were in my price range.
I wanted a unit that could deal with surround sound but also listen to music.

I went into surroundsound and listened to this setup with the booster amp and then without and it sounded pretty much the same to my friend and I.
I went away and thought about it, looked the system up on the web, read hifi forum posts about people who had the same systems, read reviews which were all good and checked out the prices.

Went back to the shop with my own music (dance music with an insane bass) and it sounded incredible. Really loud...

Yes I know I stuffed up. If you say the booster amp is crap what should I look at?

A normal stereo amp wont deal with surround sound or will it?