Thread: Home theatre versus stereo system.

Originally Posted by dalejw

Tchaikonsky ....

Who's he?????

Originally Posted by Iain

Who's he?????

He's Tchaikovskys little know second cousin... Pioneered the use of cannons in large scale instrumental arrangements. Died discovereing that the cannon ball should be omitted.

In true Darwinian form 'Comrade, hold my vodka, watch this...'

For Tchaicovonosky why not trade in the subwoofer and instal a real cannon in your lounge? You could have it pointed out the window at your neighbours house.

Originally Posted by Iain

God I hate bottom end crud, TEAC plastic boxed subwoofer that rattles, anything AKAI, DEC, I mean, I have seen complete systems (and I use that term very loosely) selling for $150 or so.

Got a mate who is one of the better sources of good audio/video equipment and he has often told me of the people who come in and pay 8 grand for some monster screen and won't spend more than $500.oo on a sound system to go with it. By the same token about 3 months ago he finished a complete home theatre for a customer, installation and all, and there was no change out of 120K. He told me that he put in equipment that he could only dream of.

From the way I see it, if your only listening to acoustic type music there is no need for a sub unless your mains dont play flat down to 40-50hz.

With the majority of music that I listen too I wouldnt want to be without a sub!
And no I dont do dance music, JBT/ Foo's/Audio Slave/ P Finger/and most modern stuff needs subs... or your not getting all the signal unless your mains can go down to 40hz at the same db level they can do at 100hz.
Very few can... including high end stuff, simply because they are designed to sound best with acoustic music... but in saying that add a real sub to these type speakers and you'll be suprised. I've heard some single driver(dual concentric?) TL Tannoy's with and without a sub playing JBT, I'll stick to with thanks best I've ever listened too

Here's a topic and area where I've dumped a lot of money since Year 11. First amp was a 85W RMS Stereo Yamaha amp. Then 3 more Yamaha amps to keep up with the Dolby surround upgrades (all Yamaha amps and every amp in excess of $1500).

Then I discovered Rotel, B&W speakers, and Velodyne subs. Built 3 home theatre systems using these brands and must say that for around $6,000 it don't get much better. So good IMHO that I feel no urge to upgrade.

As to playing music, it's pretty good if you bypass all the crap and adjust the sub to suit.

Side by Side against the Yamaha, the Rotel sounds unbelievably better. It is extremely obvious even to a novice. For the money, the Rotel is much better value if you are going to spend over $1,500 on an amp/receiver.

WARNING A series of rants follows.

Just when the HiFi business was beginning to market using reasonable and believable claims and specifications (sometimes) ( having been dragged kicking & screaming) allong comes home theatre and computer audio and the flood gates of complete and utter BULLS.....T open.
So we are back to quoting silly power power figures and no body wants to hear about noise and distortion.

A case in point
I have arround here (somewhere) a set of "Computer multi-media speakers" that claim to be 20 watts?? I know for a fact that the little chip amp within is capable of about 2 watts per channel in its best design implementation and correct impedance. As built the nasty little things are probaly capable of delivering about half a watt into the speakers. This is the norm right thru the market for this type of speaker.

It then becomes difficult to explain that the 450 watt per channel (RMS real ones) amp you are quoting to install in their church is a lot different to the 500 watt ( realy 20watt) multimedia system they have at home.:mad: :confused: :eek:

I would say it would be difficult to find a serious HiFi salesman let alone an honest one that knows his stuff.
AAAAAGH:eek:

home theatre has become a price sold comodity and as such much of the gear fails to deliver in performance and durability.
That said there is some very respectable sounding gear out there very cheap.

back a little closer to the subject
multispeaker surround and quality stereo play back are two completely different design requirements.
our ears and eyes are funny things.

If we look at a high quality black and white photograph our eyes and our brain register great textural detail and our vision seems to be of higher resolution
take exactly the same photograph printed in colour on the same quality paper the same size and viewed in the same situation particularly if there are strong colours in the scene. Our eyes and our brain will see the colour first and will strugle to register the fine textural detail.

HiFi is similar to black and white. Properly set up quality HiFi equipment in a well designed room will deliver stunning depth, clarity and detail, particulary when the material played has been recorded with the intention of being heard this way.

Multi Channel home theatre (and full scale theatre for that matter) on the other hand is designed to deliver an exagerated spatial and dynamic experience and and the material played is recorded to create that impression.
In this situation accuracy, depth and clarity are not the priority in fact accuracy is the last thing you need because everything about the experience is nothing like the truth, it is a cleverly contrived artificial impression of what is going on just like the actors performance and the special effects and thats the way we expect it.

The frequency response is all whacky, all sorts of time manipulation is going on and the dynamic behaviour of the sound track is just totaly manipulated.
Our ears and our brain will be total consumed dealing with all this extrainious contrivance that things like distortion, frequency response, clarity, "transperency " are just pushed right to the back.

So a cheap 5 speaker surround system playing the right movie track can seem quite impressive in spite of being very ordinary in fact quite crappy.

So the equipment and the process reflect the need.
The drive electronics don't need to have as good noise, distortion, and other spec's. The speakers need to be small and therefore have poor frequency response. so a "Sub" is used. The sub needs plenty of kick but it also needs to be small so it realy doesn't go all that low. The amp to drive it will often be peak limited and be a high distortion type.

Compare that with a respectable Hi Fi set up with a pair of speakers that have good bas extention, smooth response and top end extension, a amp with good frequency response, low distortion, low noise and a good damping factor and any decent CD player and of course the result will be very different.
And hell even the chineese can manage that these days.

Personaly I think home theatre is the emperors new clothes of the audio industry.

All those shops who were trying to tell you that sound signals traveled better one way down a wire than the other and that this $70 per metre speaker cable will make the chipboard speakers connected to your basic Sansui amp sound sooooo much better, have given up because they are selling so much cheap (and expensive ) home theatre that they don't have time for the old HiFi swindle

cheers chaps

hey mate...

have'nt read the above posts yet as i'm just about to watch Inspector Rex...

but...i was totaly into home theatre, but where does it end, well money is usually better spent on more important things, one day when i got a little extra chash to play with i'll get back into it, although i would'nt mind a sub...

anyway as for your question and my opinion, i have an onkyo too, i had a five speaker set up but now i just use the to mains (jv60's)...

when i'm watching a action flick i space the speakers out to the side and point them inwards a lot, this creats a phantom effect, you'd swear it was home theatre set up...

as for music, it's got to be stereo as it's not regorded in 5-1 dolby so itt sound locco, maybe a music dvd might be good on HT though...

HAHAH how true!

I opted for HI-FI that doubles as home theatre - originally that was going to be a processor in the tape loop of my amp, but I ended up buying a 6ch jobby anyway (the last of the good marantz models before someone told em you could charge $4500 as long as it was really heavy) but stereo performance with direct signal is identical to my ME for 59" 58' per hour - did someone mention those cannons again!

As to subs my mirage m-7si ' are flat to about 37hz, and whent eh processor knows this, it puts all the sub signal to the mains - solid and impactful, but doesnt rock the neighbours - wait till you live next to some tosser with an overblown sub who watches movies till 1am! - no-wonder violent crime is up!!!

So I maintain that a good music system does an excellant job of movies but a great movie sytem will never do a good job of music.

Originally Posted by la Huerta

when i'm watching a action flick i space the speakers out to the side and point them inwards a lot, this creats a phantom effect, you'd swear it was home theatre set up...

When im in the mood for a good listen to music (not home theater) i like to put the chair in the "middle" of the room with the speakers 2mt in front the same distance apart so we are all in space. You get the same effect the recording engineers wanted you to hear when they are in a similar position with their studio monitors. Dim the lights and turn it up and put Darkside of the Moon on (vinyl plz) It will blow your socks off

Lignum...that's exactly what i was trying to say, but the words just would'nt come out, about the speaker position that is, not the lp, (no offence) just a film buff, hope to be involved in film making one day...

Soundman

You are a genius - your points are not a rant but a well presented arguement.

As they say for sports car performance - there is not substitute for for cubic inches - there is no substitute for quality watts in a hi fi system - speakers are personal but for mine - electrostatic - Martin Logans to be exact- are hard to beat.

Your early post regarding ear protection inspired me to upgrade my muffs

Best wishes

Peter

all in all, there such two different thing, you either watch a movie or you listen to music, i love both, i once listened to a little pare of very very high quality bookshelf speakers running from a 15watt valve amp, it was so amazing i could sit there all day, it was likeee the singer was there in the room, that's what you want...

but a movie is different, it's telling you a visual story like a comic book coming to life, the sound involved in a film is there as part of the story, emotion, and exitement of what you are seeeing on the screen...

so you can't really compare the two as there purposes are different...