Thread: The size of biscuits

This one's going to take some investigation - wikipedia have no #5.......

Biscuit joiner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I found some extra info....

http://www.woodjoiners.com.au/how-to-use-bix..html

How to use: Size 5 Bix Wood Joiner Biscuits.
Cutter 40 x 4.0 mm. Slot depth 13.1 mm.
1. Run a pencil line, or lines, across both pieces to be joined.
2. Use the Triton Router Table with the 50 x 4.0 mm blade.
3. Cut a slot to a minimum depth of 13.1 mm in both pieces.
4. Glue both slots and face, place biscuits in place, then clamp till dry.
Size 5 is the ideal wood joiner for special timber joining applications. They are used in conjunction with the 40mm x 4mm cutter blade and either a 1/4" or 1/2" arbor to suit any router.

• The design of the Size 5 wood joiner is ideal for joins where slot space is limited, such as in picture frames or cabinet door frames particularly with infill panels.
• The minimum door/picture frame width is 35mm. The maximum frame rebate is 7mm.
• A special cut-out design feature offers extra versatility where limited space and corners are a consideration.
• The 120º angle cut-out design feature eliminates biscuit interference with timber or glass infill panels inserted in the door/picture frame rebate.

Our 1/4" and 1/2" shanked arbors suit any router and come with an inbuilt depth gauge to make the slot the correct depth to take the Size 5 wood joiner.
Our tungsten carbide tipped cutter for use in conjunction with our Size 5 wood joiners, suits the range of commercially available routers with 1/4" or 1/2" chuck. The cutter is designed to deliver a consistently accurate depth of cut for the life of the blade.

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PS - Glad to here all's good with you & Pat, Ray.....You must owe her big time after getting that new shed for Christmas......lol...
Cheers, crowie

what type of frame are you constructing, not usually a job for biscuits

Hi China I have built a couple of work benches it is my intention to make the frames up first.
Then build them in under the bench. With a pine façade across the front of the bench frame, I would be using 48x18 finished battens for this.
The method of joining will be a biscuit plates and glue method, which I will square up and clamp and then attach the drawer bearing runners it is easier for me to build this way it saves me crawling around on the floor and getting under the bench to attach timber battens to bench frame. I have made cabinets this way in the past after I retired I worked in Saint Vincent De Paul work shop building light furniture in the way of bed sitting tables and hanging racks small chests of drawers and other bits and pieces
When I make the frame I will cut about 3mm off the corners of the biscuits so they fit snug in the timber batten the size of the biscuits plates are number 0 sometimes they fit other times they can be a fraction to long. Maybe the number 5 biscuits plates would suit better but I cannot find anything out about them
Woodworking is not my career I worked in the communication area for forty years.
You can see my shed build here https://www.woodworkforums.com/f245/a...-years-159330/
it may make thing a little clearer to see I am not the best at explaining things as I proceed there will be more picture of the drawer frames on that sight
Colbra

Originally Posted by China

what type of frame are you constructing, not usually a job for biscuits

Those look like they are for the Triton system,around 38mm.
If you use them with a normal size B joiner you will have a larger slot than you need.

I see the problem.

It begins with Bunnings. You went to a hardware store and expected the people there to know:

1 - What a "hammer" is
2 - What "wood" is
3 - Where to find either of them

The critical mistake was "asking" somebody for "help".

Bunnings "associates" (not assistants as this would be a trade practices issue of accurate product description) are only trained to say "gan-I-elp-ya" if you are actually studying a product you have picked up and intend to buy (never before hand), or, "ows-et-goan" for all other forms of interaction.

To actually ask them about anything they sell, potentially sell, or even do not sell, you will either draw doe eyed blank stares (no, you were not speaking Babylonian) or they consult their random number generator (RNG) to tell you the isle. The RNG characteristically is a number that is a convenient distance from them (say about 60% of the stores length) so someone else will be forced to offer "gan-I-elp-ya".

I have tested this. Just before Christmas I asked the front girl, the special orders and 2 other people for a "Number 4 Heckstall Brush" or baring this a "Fullerole Cover". I couldn't help myself. These are totally made up.

Front girl sent me to tools. Tools sent me to paints and paints then swore that both could be obtained for special orders. Paint Man swore someone ordered one only the week before. I couldn't help myself. To Special Orders I go. I handed them the most precisely lain out vaguery I could for both. They both sounded like critical and common electrical items and I simply couldn't understand why they were not on the shelves as "everyone else stocks plenty of them, in BOTH sizes" and I had bought 2 only the week before.

Left my details after wasting 40 minutes of their time. Never hear back.

Now, you made the CRITICAL mistake of asking a Bunnings Associate about something in THEIR area with a product they SELL and they are standing NEXT to.

Sorry, they can't help you. "I was selling washing machines at Harvey Norman until last week".

"ows-et-goan?"

Originally Posted by Evanism

I see the problem.

It begins with Bunnings. You went to a hardware store and expected the people there to know:

1 - What a "hammer" is
2 - What "wood" is
3 - Where to find either of them

The critical mistake was "asking" somebody for "help".

Bunnings "associates" (not assistants as this would be a trade practices issue of accurate product description) are only trained to say "gan-I-elp-ya" if you are actually studying a product you have picked up and intend to buy (never before hand), or, "ows-et-goan" for all other forms of interaction.

To actually ask them about anything they sell, potentially sell, or even do not sell, you will either draw doe eyed blank stares (no, you were not speaking Babylonian) or they consult their random number generator (RNG) to tell you the isle. The RNG characteristically is a number that is a convenient distance from them (say about 60% of the stores length) so someone else will be forced to offer "gan-I-elp-ya".

I have tested this. Just before Christmas I asked the front girl, the special orders and 2 other people for a "Number 4 Heckstall Brush" or baring this a "Fullerole Cover". I couldn't help myself. These are totally made up.

Front girl sent me to tools. Tools sent me to paints and paints then swore that both could be obtained for special orders. Paint Man swore someone ordered one only the week before. I couldn't help myself. To Special Orders I go. I handed them the most precisely lain out vaguery I could for both. They both sounded like critical and common electrical items and I simply couldn't understand why they were not on the shelves as "everyone else stocks plenty of them, in BOTH sizes" and I had bought 2 only the week before.

Left my details after wasting 40 minutes of their time. Never hear back.

Now, you made the CRITICAL mistake of asking a Bunnings Associate about something in THEIR area with a product they SELL and they are standing NEXT to.

Sorry, they can't help you. "I was selling washing machines at Harvey Norman until last week".

"ows-et-goan?"

I Just love It!... Made my day
Colbra

There is only one mistake in the brilliant post by Evanism.

He referred to Bunnings as a 'hardware store'

Originally Posted by nrb

Those look like they are for the Triton system,around 38mm.
If you use them with a normal size B joiner you will have a larger slot than you need.

Thanks for giving me that piece of information NRB, Crowie has also added to it as well I now have a clear picture of things and may invest in a cutter that size for the table it would be a good size for the 18x48 mm battens that make up the frame for the drawers thanks again fellows .
Colbra

Just to throw in my 2c worth; Crowie's post included some very good information supplied by an Oz firm called "Bix". Their biccies are absolute rubbish though; some cheap unknown semi-hardwood. Out of a box of 100 you'll find one or two have snapped just through the stresses of being rattled around.

Haron make a decent product but you may have to special order them in. I quickly looked at their website and they make the No-5's if that's the way you want to go.

Love the comments about the Big Green Shed! Our local one isn't too bad; most of the staff are ok but there are always a couple of mouth breathers who'd be illiterate if you removed their index fingers.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Just to throw in my 2c worth; Crowie's post included some very good information supplied by an Oz firm called "Bix". Their biccies are absolute rubbish though; some cheap unknown semi-hardwood. Out of a box of 100 you'll find one or two have snapped just through the stresses of being rattled around.

Haron make a decent product but you may have to special order them in. I quickly looked at their website and they make the No-5's if that's the way you want to go.

Love the comments about the Big Green Shed! Our local one isn't too bad; most of the staff are ok but there are always a couple of mouth breathers who'd be illiterate if you removed their index fingers.

HI Chief Tiff
Thanks for you reply on the biscuits!... the brand was from Bunnings and they were Haron.
I have also found another brand called Lamello they are Swiss made the price is not to bad $50 plus gst + postage $15 eg: $70 for a 10000 that seems ok please check my figures I can't type and add up at the same time LOL

This is the address.
Lincoln Sentry Group Pty. Ltd.Sydney10 Jessica PlacePrestons NSW 217 Tel. 02 8784 4444

This is the address for the router cutters for the number 5 biscuits

Dimar Australia Unit 7 - 10 Pioneer Avenue, Tuggerah NSW 2259 Australia
Telephone: 02 43 53 43 66 Fax: +61 2 43 53 43 56
email: [email protected]
Postal Address P.O. Box 5443, Chittaway Bay NSW 2261Australia
Colbra

Personally ( if I understand corectly) I would use dowls or lap joints, biscuits are are not a good choice for strengh

Originally Posted by China

Personally ( if I understand corectly) I would use dowls or lap joints, biscuits are are not a good choice for strengh

Hi China I can see your point of the biscuit method of construction not being the strongest method in making a standalone frame and the weight of tools in each drawer would add up overall.
As I mentioned in my previous post to you I have used this method of constructing in a frame and carcass construction. In that case the carcass giving the overall rigidity. These bed tables were smaller and lighter cabinets with only two drawers so I take all what you tell me on board.
A point I would like to make to you is after the frames are made and the drawers fitted I would fix the frame securely to the existing bench frame with 3mm steel angle
I could after reading you concerns about strength put triangular pieces in as braces in all eight corners and between each drawer slide support fit vertical braces
I feel at the end of the project it would be more than adequate. I do appreciate your input to my project and you certainly would have a wealth of experience more than I and I am always ready to listen and lean.
Colbra

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Just to throw in my 2c worth; Crowie's post included some very good information supplied by an Oz firm called "Bix". Their biccies are absolute rubbish though; some cheap unknown semi-hardwood. Out of a box of 100 you'll find one or two have snapped just through the stresses of being rattled around.

Haron make a decent product but you may have to special order them in. I quickly looked at their website and they make the No-5's if that's the way you want to go.

Love the comments about the Big Green Shed! Our local one isn't too bad; most of the staff are ok but there are always a couple of mouth breathers who'd be illiterate if you removed their index fingers.

Thanks for the good feedback "Chief",
I had just done a search on the No:5 Biscuit and eventually found that info for Col....
I wasn't recommending the brand..
Cheers, crowie

Originally Posted by crowie

Thanks for the good feedback "Chief",
I had just done a search on the No:5 Biscuit and eventually found that info for Col....
I wasn't recommending the brand..
Cheers, crowie

No worries Crowie; I was actually impressed that they had that useful information readily available which allowed you to pass it on. It's just a pity that their product is so poor; I just pinged on the Bix name and started to shudder! I don't think anyone has actually ever reccommended them at all..... I still have a few hundred biccies from a batch order of a 1000 but I only ever use them on really lightly stressed components, or purely for alignment purposes.

Lamello are absolutely tops with their biccies; they claim to have pretty much invented the whole concept and their machines are probably the most expensive on the market. One day...

Col, you will come across many arguaments about the relative strengths of biscuit joinery; personally I have found that decent biscuits combined with quality glues are a must, and that you need to design the joint so that the biccies are under shear or slip stresses for maximum strength.