Thread: Saw blade blanks

Originally Posted by IanW

Depends on your bolts, DSEL, surely? I think 3/16" is pretty common for the newly-minted varieties for small saws. But if you want to use the sex-bolt style for your saw, they need holes matched to the part that goes through the plate. Some types of saw bolts I've seen have smaller shafts than 3/16 - more like 5/32, and some as fine as ~1/8" on old saws.

Not sure if European-sourced bolts are metric, but 5mm and 3/16 are close anyway. I have been making my saw bolts with 4mm shafts for small saws, 5mm for medium, and 6mm for large saws.

I like the sound of these solid-carbide bits - I drill enough saw plate I reckon I might be able to justify a set, though I haven't seen the price yet - that could change my mind quickly....

Cheers,

There you go I thought the shanks were standardised and the heads varied in size. But I haven't much experience with older saws.
How close a fit do you have between the holes in the plate and the shank of the bolt. I would have thought on something that small 1mm would be too much clearance and leave to much play or rely on the clamping force too heavily.

3/16= 4.76mm so if the shank was 4.76mm a 5mm hole would be fine or a 4mm shank in a 4.5mm hole. Then again it would require a lot more accuracy in spacing the two holes apart also so everything lines up perfectly. Maybe a little more leeway is better.


I haven't found an Australian stockist ….as usual….but they are about $15-20 a bit plus postage I'm thinking to get some. So you can check them out at the workshop and see what you think. Just waiting on a response from the manufacturer.

Carba-tec have CMT metric bits, pricy. Does 5mm for 3/16" leave too much wriggle room?

Solid Carbide Twist Drills "V" Points 120° Sharpening : CARBA-TEC

Originally Posted by DSEL74

There you go I thought the shanks were standardised and the heads varied in size. But I haven't much experience with older saws..

Dale, I guess you could say there is a finite number of bolt sizes, and p'raps you could say they were 'standardised' within a given country over given periods, but I've seen a lot of different saw bolts, & I haven't seen 'em all, by a long shot!

Originally Posted by DSEL74

.. How close a fit do you have between the holes in the plate and the shank of the bolt. I would have thought on something that small 1mm would be too much clearance and leave to much play or rely on the clamping force too heavily. 3/16= 4.76mm so if the shank was 4.76mm a 5mm hole would be fine or a 4mm shank in a 4.5mm hole. Then again it would require a lot more accuracy in spacing the two holes apart also so everything lines up perfectly. Maybe a little more leeway is better....

I like to get as neat a fit as I can for the very reason you state - less wriggle room if the nuts come loose. A 3/16 bolt in a 5mm hole is close enough, I reckon, but 4.5mm for a 4mm bolt is tending towards a bit sloppy. Cheek pressure will hold a saw pretty well, but I prefer not to rely on it. If it's any comfort, a lot of old backsaws have very sloppy holes, but give them a good twitch-up & they are usually fine.

When making a saw from scratch, it's not hard to get a precise fit, by putting the blade in place & drilling a tiny divot, just enough to see, with the same size drill as the hole in the handle. Then I centre-pop the mark thus made, & drill a bare clearance hole in the metal. I only fiddle with it if something goes amiss & the hole is off by a smidgin. It's a different story when re-handling an existing saw that still has clean bolt holes, because it's a little more difficult to get the holes bang on - it shouldn't be, but my experience has been that these are the ones I sometimes get off a bit. If that happens, I remove the minimum amount of metal to get as close a fit as possible. The easiest way I've found is to use a 1/8th chainsaw file to elongate the hole slightly in the right direction. When all bolts are in place, they should still fit snugly, and little or no wriggle is evident.

Cheers,

Assuming you have tried this mob?

As at 8 Aug - Dawborn Steel has SAE 1085 H&T in 0.4mm (.015") 300 x 1000mm sheet
They also normally stock 0.64 (0.025") but nothing at this time (maybe next month).

So 1085 high carbon steel - hardened and tempered.

Not sure on the RC rating but it should be fine
I didn't ask on price.

Originally Posted by enelef

As at 8 Aug - Dawborn Steel has SAE 1085 H&T in 0.4mm (.015") 300 x 1000mm sheet
They also normally stock 0.64 (0.025") but nothing at this time (maybe next month).

So 1085 high carbon steel - hardened and tempered.

Not sure on the RC rating but it should be fine
I didn't ask on price.

Saw plate is generally 1095….Is the 1085 a Typo?

I have ordered 3 rolls of material 0.015, 0.020, 0.025 from overseas for the workshop. It looks like there will be a big demand on it.

I'll be in if there's some going. Not sure what sizes and thicknesses I need yet.

Cheers, Vann.

Nah, 1085 is fractionally less carbon content than 1095 for the steel.

What does that mean - it is fractionally softer and a little less brittle when H&T.

The higher the carbon content, the harder and more brittle the metal becomes when H&T unless only the edge is treated.
But we are not talking a huge amount of difference here.

The difference between 1010 and 1095 will be huge, but not so much as 1085 and 1095.

Originally Posted by Vann

I'll be in if there's some going. Not sure what sizes and thicknesses I need yet.

Cheers, Vann.

Should be some left over. PM me in a few weeks if I haven't posted about it.

Originally Posted by enelef

Nah, 1085 is fractionally less carbon content than 1095 for the steel.

What does that mean - it is fractionally softer and a little less brittle when H&T.

The higher the carbon content, the harder and more brittle the metal becomes when H&T unless only the edge is treated.
But we are not talking a huge amount of difference here.

The difference between 1010 and 1095 will be huge, but not so much as 1085 and 1095.

1085 or CS85, is 0.80% to 0.93% carbon, whereas 1095 or CS95 is 0.90% to 1.03% carbon, so really there's not a whole lot of difference.

Some current saw makers use 1085, I think flinn/garlick/pax/atkinson use 1085, but I can't confirm that....

Given a choice I'd choose 1095, but if 1085 was substantially cheaper or more readily available, I see no problem using it.

All of the "boutique" saw makers are using 1095, the slightly price over 1085 is neither here nor there in relation to the overall cost of a hand made saw.

Regards
Ray

I would gladly buy some from you DSEL if you could let me know, Cheers, Richie Rich

So I found this old Sandvik saw at the pawn shop, has a nice thin blade. Should fit nicely in my Disston

Is the sheet metal from cars suitable ? I remember ford touting some special thin sheet
they were usining to make there soon to be extinct Falcons.

Originally Posted by Ian Wells

Is the sheet metal from cars suitable ? I remember ford touting some special thin sheet
they were usining to make there soon to be extinct Falcons.

Ian, I have no idea what the composition of car body steel is, but I doubt that it could be hardened to the range required for saws....

Cheers,