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Thread: Japanese Kitchen Knives
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8th October 2013, 07:27 PM #31Senior Member
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8th October 2013, 09:04 PM #32
I have re-finished the knife block to a satin sheen. I think it looks better. SWMBO said it looks more masculine, but she may have been trying to appeal to my macho side .
I'm hoping it will meet with approval from my sister in law and of course the final recipient.
JP knives 2 004.jpgJP knives 2 001.jpgJP knives 2 002.jpgJP knives 2 003.jpg
Here are some more pictures of the knives themselves as I suspect that is what you really want to see. I have included the block laid alongside the knives to highlight the contrast in finish.
JP knives 2 006.jpgJP knives 2 007.jpgJP knives 2 008.jpgJP knives 2 009.jpg
I have tried to use the new system of posting pix as outlined by Neil rather than "inserting in line." It looks as though one pic in the first four is a duplicate although it has a different designation and one pic is missing. Not sure what happened. it is probably me. I have that effect on computers .
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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10th October 2013, 10:35 AM #33Senior Member
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There's a cooking show in the US on PBS called "America's Test Kitchen" that I usually watch, very good show. They blew me away last night with a review of vegetable cleavers, which included both usuba and nakiri. The show staff use a nakiri (Mac/Mak brand or something close) because they're lighter and very sharp; but the reviewer said pro chefs prefer usuba because the single bevel helps push away the cut pieces.
Pam
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10th October 2013, 08:01 PM #34
That's about it, Ern.
Harder = More abrasive resistant = Slower to lose sharp edge = A bit slower to resharpen
A good bladesmith will optimise this difference.
This is my advice to new users of J-knives, which I adhere to myself. Unlike western knives, there is no need to push hard down on the knife. The v. sharp edge will slice through food with just the weight of the knife.
Having said that; the Nakiri is used by the Japanese for fine mincing, but with a delicate touch not familiar to westerners. Treat it like a cleaver and the hard/brittle edge steel will chip.
As well as the acid etch, if a maker has used that, the flux used to 'weld' the laminated layers together seems to be more prone to oxidising. That is why you also get that oxidisation along the lamination line with just a single layer of cladding.
No 'expert' here, perhaps just a few more years playing around with them than some, along with an ongoing interest in any tool that I use.Stay sharp and stay safe!
Neil
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15th October 2013, 01:31 PM #35Hewer of wood
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Neil, I've learned a great deal from you. Thanks for your generous sharing.
Pam, these knife blades are so thin that I'm not sure that a single bevel will make that much difference, at least to this amateur. The Tanaka Nakiri is 0.6mm thick at the end of the bevels. (It didn't come quite like that; that's a product of my sharpening and taking out some of the surface grind marks with a belt sander but the basic point remains.)
That said I'm slowly taking the inside bevel off to see. The triangular X-section handle marks this as a right-hander's tool.Cheers, Ern
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16th October 2013, 09:43 AM #36Senior Member
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Neil, me, too.
Ern, very interesting thing to try. Please let us know how this works out. My understanding of how a single bevel may be better at sloughing off the cut pieces is when one is cutting really fast moving down the vegetable with fingers and knife. Anyhow, I was merely passing on what America's Test Kitchen said.
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16th October 2013, 10:38 AM #37Hewer of wood
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In principle it should work better Pam. The feel in practice is to be seen.
It's certainly odd using a single-bevel knife like a Deba for the first time. For filleting fish you can immediately see the point though as the flat bottom follows the spine and the rather thick bevel lifts the fillet away. You're not battling the tendency to dive that a double-bevel knife has.Cheers, Ern
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16th October 2013, 01:13 PM #38Stay sharp and stay safe!
Neil
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20th October 2013, 09:58 AM #39
Neil
Can I hark back to this post and ask how the hole for the flat tang is made? I imagine a series of holes drilled adjacent to each other the same diameter as the tang thickness. The difficulty would then be to clean out the remainder of the waste. Or is there another method? I have a definite reason for asking this question as I have at least two knives on the way which will require a smart JP style handle.
I have definitely been bitten by the bug.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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20th October 2013, 11:53 AM #40
Depends on the thickness of the tang. They can vary from 3-8mm.
For the thinner tangs you need a long shanked drill bit to go deep enough. As you say, drill centre and either end to begin mortise. Drill additional holes if required. Some tangs taper, in which case, mark on outside of handle to get correct drill angle/s. Drill deeper than the length of the tang to make removing the waste wood at the bottom of the mortise easier.
And, yes, removing the remaining waste wood in such a narrow mortise is a challenge. Japanese mortice nomi do go down to 3mm thickness, but I find my small hand carving tools and customised knives get most use for this.
The fit doesn't have to be tight. Epoxy takes up any gaps.Stay sharp and stay safe!
Neil
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20th October 2013, 01:10 PM #41
Neil
Thank you. You have confirmed my worst fears.
I was looking at a very fine mortising chisel a while back on ebay ( less than 3mm) and decided not to pursue it as I was being extravagant!
I might have to make up a specialised morticing tool. Another idea that came to me after I posted was using a multi tool fitted with a 10mm blade after the initial drilling has been done. However the blades are not long and it would also be dependent on the tang thickness and width as they cut wider than 10mm with their oscillation. It might assist to remove the bulk of the material before final finishing by hand. having dais all that the use of a machine flies in the face of such a crafted handle, but I suppose you could argue the same of using an electric drill.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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20th October 2013, 05:12 PM #42Senior Member
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At the business end of a 2-3mm chisel, there's not that much difference between a mortiser and a bench edge, most of the difference is between the shanks. Also, it's difficult to get the size precisely as stated, so you can plan on possibly having to grind a touch on each side. If you have a very narrow chisel you don't use, I'd give grinding a try. Just be careful of any steel that wraps around the sides, would hate to lose a lot of that.
Pam
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20th October 2013, 08:21 PM #43
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20th October 2013, 09:15 PM #44
Congratulations, good work.
This Japanese style knife I made last year for use in meetings with friends.
SV100123.jpg SV100134.jpg
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21st October 2013, 02:37 PM #45Senior Member
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