Goat Island Skiff (Guatemala)

**surlyone** · 17th October 2013, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by Beaton1

I wondered about fitting those arms as well and bent the sides in and clamped them and fooled with them and wondered some more. In the end, I decided the sides looked pretty fair before clamping them to the frames so I left them alone and scribed the frames to the sides. As you mentioned, they flared outward about 10mm as they approached the gunwale. My decision to scribe wasn't, for me, all that obvious, so even though you're noticing the flattish spot, it may be that it's fine. That spectacular waterfront must be calling!

If you decide to redo them, I've had good luck around the house with a cordless makita multi-tool. The vibrating spatula thing. Uses the same battery as the cordless skilsaw which I found really handy for cutting out the plywood parts.

Thanks for your thoughts and experiences Beaton1. I'm giving all of this some considerable thought this morning. My current plan (subject to new inspiration) is:
1). Continue work on the gunwales and get them planned down to near there final dimensions (also gives me some more time to think about this before I do something that makes it worse);
2). Glue on 90% of the inwale spacers and clamp on the inwales to see if the curve smooths out ;
3). If 2). doesn't smooth the curve sufficiently then I'll clamp on one or both of the bottom runners (25x30mm mahogany) and strap and clamp within reason to see what is required to get a smooth curve;
4). I guess the next steps depend what happens at 2). and 3)., but could include:
a). leaving the bottom runners clamped and gluing the 15mm inwales in place; or
b). leaving the bottom runners clamped and make up a slighting thicker/stiffer 19mm inwale and try it; or
c). modify BH#4 arm above the tank top; either remove and scarf in a new section fitting the profile of the plywood or split this arm close to the plywood edge down to near the tank top and glue a wedge inserted into the split so that the arm more closely follows the original plywood profile.

Something I don't really have a feel for is how much of the shape has been locked in with the gluing of gunwales. Is there any flexibility left for the sheer to fair out? The more I look at the sheer the more I am convincing my self that the arm at BH#4 is the original problem.

**surlyone** · 17th October 2013, 04:23 AM

Just pulled off the clamps and planned down the gunwale capping on the starboard side. This side looks much smoother/fairer - there may be a flat spot but it is significantly smaller then the one on the port side and I guess it should disappear when the inwale is glued on.

IMGP3145.JPG
Hi Res Image Here

**davlafont** · 17th October 2013, 07:20 AM

Any chance you might just live with it? That's my vote.

I'll reveal a deep dark secret: my hull is not symmetrical due to my BH3 arms being at slightly different angles. The starboard sheer has a touch less flare than the port, though both sides are fair curves. I suspected it but didn't really confirm until it came time to install the rear deck. That's when the difference became very clear because the I had to reshape the previously symmetrical deck to fit. In the end, the boat floats, sails, and wows the crowds (if you'll forgive the lack of modestly for a moment).

I say, install the inwales. They might be able to lock a revised curve into place. My inwales are made of Oregon. They were not too thrilled with being tortured to match the sheer (whereas the narrower gunn'ls had no issue). I don't think you can ask them to naturally form the curve you're seeking AND over come the flat spot, not without some outside influence. I can't imagine how you would push outward at the flat spot though.

I'm not sure the runners are going to weigh in on this one way or the other.

Let it heal on its own...

**surlyone** · 17th October 2013, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by davlafont

Any chance you might just live with it? That's my vote.

I'm not sure the runners are going to weigh in on this one way or the other.

Let it heal on its own...

Hi Dave - thanks for chiming in. First the reference to the runners was to use them to clamp on to the gunwales to smooth out the sheer. I don't think I made that clear in my post. For instance: the stiffer runners could be clamped to the gunwales when I glue on the inwales so they are glued to a smoother curve.

I'm happy to live with this if I can make it look half as ugly as it does right now. Right now it looks real ugly! Here's a picture taken from behind the boat, it probably shows the problem better then the photos I posted previously. I'll continue to give the problem some thought before I do anything to try and fix it.

IMGP3147.JPG
Hi Res Image Here

**Northstar** · 17th October 2013, 01:07 PM

You are being too critical. The boat is beautiful and when you are sailing you will forget all about it.

**paulie** · 17th October 2013, 01:34 PM

+1 on Northstar's comment.

My hull is slightly twisted. The centerboard is slightly askew. There are some (to me) glaring asymmetries and more than a few scars. I can see the butt joins on the exterior of the hull. There are bubbles in the varnish. The edges of the chine tape are visible in the exterior paint.

And every time I take the boat anywhere, all I get is compliments. They range from "Did you really make that?" to "Someone's got too much effing time on his hands." But they are always positive. Never once has anyone said, "If you had been more careful, you wouldn't have had to patch the starboard sidearm on bulkhead 4" even though the seam from the patch is clearly visible (to me).

One of my other (too many) hobbies is brewing my own beer. There is an old saying in the homebrewing community: "Relax. Don't worry. Have a home brew." We need something similar in the boat-building community. Something along the lines of "Relax. Don't worry. It's freaking beautiful and it's gonna sail just fine."

Move along and get the thing in the water. It's lovely. Really. And it is going to sail like a dream.

**surlyone** · 18th October 2013, 02:00 AM

RDWHAHB! (In my case it's mostly cider and wine...)

IMGP2656.JPG

Thanks for all the positive comments but I had to at least make some effort to "fix" the "problem". Anyway I have tried a few things now and I can see that there are only going to be marginal gains to be made (without major surgery). Gluing the two layers of gunwales into place has pretty much locked in the curve that is there now. Time to move on and not dwell on it to much...

Cheers

Matt

**davlafont** · 18th October 2013, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by surlyone

...Time to move on and not dwell on it to much...

Makes me want to RDWHAHB myself. And by home brew I mean a bottle I bought somewhat near my home.

**Beaton1** · 18th October 2013, 04:29 AM

I don't want to create any more uncertainty for you on how you decide to proceed, but it sounds from your posts that you aren't all that happy with what you've got. In my experience with my woodworking, I know I won't ever be happy with something I wasn't all that happy with at the get go. It's one thing to discover something you'd like to change far down the road, but another just after. Now would be the time to make any changes. I've also found that I've been glad I backtracked and made corrections and that the thought of making the modification was worse than the actual doing. I'm just saying. Like Vader said "search your feelings, Luke. You know it to be true". We can all say it'll be fine, but we are all just trying to help you justify moving on. There will be other things that you will nit-pick about no matter what you do and some you maybe able to address later on, like seeing the seam in the side of the boat. Keeping the list to a minimum will make you more satisfied in the end.

I thought your idea of splitting the frame could be worth thinking about. How about running a handsaw down the face of the side to release the frame from the panel. The gunwale may flex enough to allow the panel to move to a more fair curve. Then fill the gap with a wedge of wood and fill the remaining gap with epoxy. If the gunwale has fixed the shape then jigsaw/power plane it off and make another. How much time and effort would you really lose by backtracking?

**surlyone** · 18th October 2013, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Beaton1

I don't want to create any more uncertainty for you on how you decide to proceed, but it sounds from your posts that you aren't all that happy with what you've got. In my experience with my woodworking, I know I won't ever be happy with something I wasn't all that happy with at the get go. It's one thing to discover something you'd like to change far down the road, but another just after. Now would be the time to make any changes. I've also found that I've been glad I backtracked and made corrections and that the thought of making the modification was worse than the actual doing. I'm just saying. Like Vader said "search your feelings, Luke. You know it to be true". We can all say it'll be fine, but we are all just trying to help you justify moving on. There will be other things that you will nit-pick about no matter what you do and some you maybe able to address later on, like seeing the seam in the side of the boat. Keeping the list to a minimum will make you more satisfied in the end.

I thought your idea of splitting the frame could be worth thinking about. How about running a handsaw down the face of the side to release the frame from the panel. The gunwale may flex enough to allow the panel to move to a more fair curve. Then fill the gap with a wedge of wood and fill the remaining gap with epoxy. If the gunwale has fixed the shape then jigsaw/power plane it off and make another. How much time and effort would you really lose by backtracking?

What I ended up doing was pretty much what you describe in splitting the side arms at BH #3 and #4 away from the plywood and inserting a wedge. Just cutting the arms away from the plywood relaxed the plywood enough for it to flex out a little bit even before inserting the wedges. Inserting the wedges pushed the plywood out a bit further. If you flick back and forward between photos #2 and #3 (which are taken from the same camera position) you can see the impact this has had on smoothing out the curve.

IMGP3150.JPG IMGP3158.JPG IMGP3157.JPG

These modifications have softened the flat spot considerably. It's still not perfect but when I look at the boat now I have to look for the flat spot rather than it standing out and being the first thing I see. Phase II will be to try and "lock" in a few more mm in a couple of places when I glue on the inwale. I hope this should be possible now that the gunwales are slightly more stretched out. If that is successful then I think it will in a place where it will no longer bother me.

I was pretty unhappy with the profile before these changes so I was never going to leave it in that state without trying a few simply modifications.

Nearly brew time...!

**surlyone** · 18th October 2013, 06:39 AM

Pic with amended side arms (wedges installed) at BH #3 and #4 on the port side.

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Hi Res Image Here

**davlafont** · 19th October 2013, 03:48 AM

Good to see you've come up with a solution that will let you sleep at night. It does underline the point, "I built it; I can re-build it if I want."

Originally Posted by Beaton1

..."search your feelings, Luke. You know it to be true"

Well put!

**surlyone** · 20th October 2013, 10:33 AM

Can anyone point me towards some good information / books etc about how to paint a boat (and prepare it for painting)? I have already purchased paint and plan to do a pretty standard goat paint job (clear interior, white sides, black/white bottom), but I feel out of my depth about how to go about getting a decent finish.

Cheers

Matt

IMGP3142.JPG

**scooterpontus** · 21st October 2013, 07:06 AM

First a small question: The epoxy primer, a small can of resin and a big can of hardener, is that the way it should be with that system?

I have read quite a lot here on the forum on painting, there is probably a section on painting in every build thread. Can be a bit tricky to find the information one is looking for in old thread though. Follow the manufacturers instructions, take your time, and don't skip on the prep work is the basic advice for all kinds of painting. To much moisture in the air is the most common problem you hear about.

I have bookmarked the following youtube video
Rolling and Tipping - First Coat - YouTube
It is about rolling and tipping which seems to be the preferred way to get a nice gloss finnish, and I remember it to be instructive.

The boat looks great, glad to hear that you got the gunwale to take the shape you wanted it to in the end.

Pontus (still a long way from painting my goat)

**surlyone** · 21st October 2013, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by scooterpontus

First a small question: The epoxy primer, a small can of resin and a big can of hardener, is that the way it should be with that system?

I have read quite a lot here on the forum on painting, there is probably a section on painting in every build thread. Can be a bit tricky to find the information one is looking for in old thread though. Follow the manufacturers instructions, take your time, and don't skip on the prep work is the basic advice for all kinds of painting. To much moisture in the air is the most common problem you hear about.

I have bookmarked the following youtube video
Rolling and Tipping - First Coat - YouTube
It is about rolling and tipping which seems to be the preferred way to get a nice gloss finnish, and I remember it to be instructive.

The boat looks great, glad to hear that you got the gunwale to take the shape you wanted it to in the end.

Pontus (still a long way from painting my goat)

Hi Pontus, thanks for your reply.

Yeah that primer ratio looks strange. Just went and had a look at the cans and it indicates that it is 1 part Part A (resin) to 4 parts Part B (hardener). It's a very different ratio to the System Three epoxy I am using.

I'll do some more trolling through the forums and see if I can find some info. I guess my first and main question is on the prep work. I don't know when it needs to be done; before epoxy coating, after epoxy coating, after primer, all three stages? Also how do I tell when it is good enough to paint, any special (sanding) tools I should or shouldn't be using during prep etc etc.

I thought there might be a good book that someone could recommend that would cover all this. I'll do some more googling!

Cheers

Matt

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