Thread: Disston from Garage Sale

Brian,
That is a good old saw and should scrub up reasonably well. I have made workers out of worse ones than that.
If your research came up with those dates then it most likely is right. The style looks right. As to the broken teeth there are 2 ways to go. You can joint down past the breaks and resharpen or just live with a couple missing. After a number of sharpenings you will be down past the break and tooth line willbe restored. The picks dont show the crack in the handle but I would use acetone or spirit to clean the gunk out of the crack then CA glue. Narrow cracks just suck the glue in. Do this before you strip it back as that will only put more crud in the crack and make it harder to get glue to work.
Regards
John

PS you were ripped off. The first saw I refurbed cost $1.0

Agree with Orraloon. Depending on just where the broken teeth are, they may not affect the saw's action too much, so you can probably live with them until a few sharpenings & jointings work them out, if you intend keeping it as a 7tpi. That's a useful pitch for a saw used for heavy sections of hardwood, but if you want to cut mostly 19mm thick planks, it would be a good idea to increase the tpi a bit, in which case you'd need to file off the existing teeth & start over. I'd hope the breaks are due to some misadventure, and not because you have a recalcitrant bit of steel that's too brittle to set.

I can't see too much unevenness in your teeth? This saw is sharpened crosscut, & they always look odd at first sight, because you have two bevels visible on the tooth leaning away from you, & none on the teeth leaning towards you, which catches the light differently. The gullets also have a bit of slope, and these two features always combine to make crosscut teeth look fat & thin alternately, even though it's a perfectly good sharpening job....

It's certainly not a rare saw - there must've been countless thousands of these kicking about the country before WW2, but nevertheless it should scrub up to be a fine user if the rust hasn't gone too deep. I've got a couple of almost identical saws & I wouldn't part with them for any amount..

Cheers,

Cheers,

My best guess would be 1906 - 1917. Type: D8; Apple Handle; 26 Inch Crosscut saw. (panel saws stopped to 24 inch);Skewback; 7 or 8 ppi.

Nice find.

Stewie;

That's a good-sized saw blade for a start. A nice full saw. Good choice.

Here's three rehab links, read them but you don't have to take them as gospel.
You can definitely uncover a great-looking saw from what you have there.
There will be good steel there.

It has the 'modern' sawbolts, so they will come off reasonably easily. If they are tight in a hole then they can break out some wood on the surface pushing out of it ... just watch out for that. Depending on which of the bolt or the nut moves easiest, I tend to unscrew the nut a bit and then tap it back down to push the bolt out a bit ... and repeat. Pushing on the nut and turning the bolt would be a safer plan it occurs to me.

My least knowledge is with reviving the handle ... (I just thought of another link) ... some light sanding and BLO will be a good start.
Mainly regarding the handle ... http://thesawblog.com/?p=436

Full rehabs ...


http://www.wkfinetools.com/tRestore/...k/sawRest6.asp


http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/f...y/library.html


http://handtooljourney.wordpress.com...e-curiosities/


I have some pics of a sawblade that was rust rust rust but they wont upload right now.
You can go a long way with 120 carefully to rough off the red stuff, 220, 400 plenty of WD40 and maybe some 2000.

If there is an etch to preserve it is a learning process ... depends how important it is to you.

After that there is making sure the toothline is straight or slightly breasted ... and then sharpening.
Sharpening rip-style is zero-problem. If you have sharpened a chisel you can do it.
Order a file online from LV or LN or whatever ... or just just a Nicholson from Bunnings.

Personally I have put off xcut filing because I wanted to *really* learn about rip-filing first ... but Holmesy and I are planning to suck it up and get into it very soon. But I also think you could just start with xcut, from new ... maybe find something else to practice on first ...
Brit/Andy has an hour long video online ... and you can print off angle guides marked with lines to help you file consistently.

You'll also need a vice, but that can be as simple as two lengths of wood in a woodwork vice with the saw in the middle.

Good luck ... show us your progress.
Cheers,
Paul

You will probably find a stamp at the toe heel with the factory "ppi" ... it looks full enough to still be there.

Re the crack, what does the other side look like?
Some people put a wedge into the grip void to try to open it up a little.
Glue could be (diluted?) CA or ordinary wood glue ...

Probably look at it after the clean-up.

Thanks for the responses and the references. I've been scouring the net to find the best techniques to clean and restore and had come across some of those references provided and what is clear is that there is no one size fits all.

I wasn't going to start on the rehab. until I had completed my present project - more bedside tables - but I couldn't stop myself and managed to remove the handle yesterday without causing any additional trauma to the wood. Really fine slots in the screws even after cleaning out the gunk but managed to loosen them quite easily using a hacksaw blade as a screwdriver! Fortunately they weren't too tight and the anticipated 'impossible to remove' one didn't materialise. Next, I was driven to look for an etch and using reasonable well worn wet & dry around a small wooden block and WD40 have been able to identify the etch - but only just. I stopped at that point to do some more reading just so I wouldn't destroy it completely and have come across all your very helpful responses. Surely there is no substance to the assertion that WD40 will ruin an etch?

Stewie, I think you are right on the money with your description. I wasn't able to narrow the age down as closely as you have.

Paul, the handle isn't badly cracked and I saw a reference to using wedges to open the crack before applying glue but I don't think the crack in this handle warrants any heroics since it extends only to the screw hole (from the blade end) but I'll have a closer look once it's cleaned up. At this stage I think super glue will flow easily into it. Is the factory stamp with the ppi at the toe? I've been looking at the heel!
I have previously made a saw vice and a simple jig and had a go at sharpening both a rip cut Tyzack and a cross cut backsaw and although I don't know what sort of job I did technically, both cut wonderfully, much to my amazement! I don't have a chop saw so I was thinking of keeping this one as a cross cut but am mindful that Ian recommends finer teeth (more tpi) but that would mean jointing which I haven't tried yet. Also Ian, it is with some embarrassment that I admit to being a bit of a dork. I thought there was some unevenness of the teeth only from the image I posted and was surprised that I hadn't noted that with saw in hand. Your explanation was correct - optical illusion.

I'll get round to posting some progress pics in due course.

Cheers
Brian

Originally Posted by Dovetail

Surely there is no substance to the assertion that WD40 will ruin an etch?

No way. The long term protection value of WD40 has been questioned by people with shiny lathes and mills and etc ...
but as far as lubricating W&D ... no problem.

Long term suggestions might include G15, lanolin, ballistol, ...

Is the factory stamp with the ppi at the toe? I've been looking at the heel!

The toe? ... ho ho ho ... No, no, not at all ... Only an idiot would say it was at the toe ...

Going now,
Paul

IanW posted on a S&J thumbhole saw cleanup ... I meant to search it out, but work interfered ...

ahah ... https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...20#post1623220

Originally Posted by pmcgee

IanW posted on a S&J thumbhole saw cleanup ...

S&J, Paul? You're losing it, me lad - 'twas definitely a Disston when I last looked....

The good news is, the replaced horn has darkened quite a bit since it was first done. It's still obvious, but not quite as sore-thumb-like as it was, so I'm hoping it will blend in even more in another year or three.

Originally Posted by Dovetail

.... Is the factory stamp with the ppi at the toe? I've been looking at the heel!.....

Brian, the ppi stamp is usually on the left hand side at the heel, but it varies a bit. By left, I mean to the left of the handle when you are holding it in your hand. It varies a bit in how close it is to the tooth line, but it's usually far enough above it that the saw has to be pretty worn before it disappears. But I have struck at least one saw that either didn't have a stamp, or it must've been really close to the tooth line & had gone even though the saw still had lots of blade left. It is a stamp, not an etch, and is quite deep. You stand no chance of sanding it away, so you can scrub away as vigorously as you like when looking for that!

Cheers,

Originally Posted by planemaker

My best guess would be 1906 - 1917. Type: D8; Apple Handle; 26 Inch Crosscut saw. (panel saws stopped to 24 inch);Skewback; 7 or 8 ppi.

Nice find.

Stewie;

Stewie

When I saw Brian's thread I thought I would do some detective work before going any further and astound people with my investigative powers , but you beat me to the punch .

If it doesn't sound condescending I agree entirely, although I don't think I could have narrowed the time line down so finely as you. The medallion was current, apparently, 1896-1917.

Brian.

That was an extremely good buy!

Regards
Paul

Refurbishing so far...

First glimpse of the etch. And I'm afraid that's all it was...
IMG_0701.jpg Unfortunately, it didn't get a lot clearer that that Refurb2.jpg

I spent quite a lot of time trying to reveal the etch - made longer by being as delicate as possible, but all to no avail. I decided that the etch, although satisfying, wasn't vital to the ultimate function of this tool and since I plan to have a user, I had to surrender my endeavours to Mr Rust and Mrs Time.

On to the back of the blade:
IRefurb3.jpg After scraping with a blade scraper; lots of wet & dry (240 and 320) and lubricant was required. I wasn't sure which lubricant was best so I tried Clean Green, WD40 and plain water. Frankly, I could not differentiate between them and they all seemed to work although I think the work is actually done by the abrasive. The process was; attack the blade, wipe off, attack again, wipe off etc. until I was no longer getting any more rust removed. I then went over it seeking out the little pits of rust that had escaped my activities.

This partial stamp was revealed along the way.
Refurb4.jpg

And this is where things ended last evening:
Refurb5.jpg Refurb6.jpg

I'm not overly ecstatic with the result and there is certainly a generous amount of 'patina' evident but I'm happy that 99% of the rust has been removed. I could probably keep on going but I don't think anything more I do to these surfaces will actually contribute to its function. Happy to be advised on this.

Probably have a first pass at the handle today. Here is the starting point:
Refurb7.jpgRefurb8.jpgRefurb9.jpg

I don't think the crack is going to be a big challenge. My plan is to clean it out as best as possible then to have some CA inserted into the crack possibly using the dust extractor to suck it in if it proves necessary. I'll then clean up the wood and give it a drink or two of tung oil and then finish with Traditional wax.

I haven't mentioned the screws and nuts. They're all in very good condition although they have their fair share of verdigris (as in the counter sink holes) which may suggest they used quite bit of copper in their brass. Is it OK to use a bit of Brasso and buffing on those?

Chhers
Brian

I think you've done a very good job of it ... I am always kinda amazed to find good steel where there was a rusty horror-show.

If your sawblade feels smooth to the fingers, and I'm sure it does, then that's all you need.

If you grip the sawblade with some locking pliers ... probably ordinary pliers will work ... where the handle will go and tap on the blade with a finger, you may hear anything from a dull tunk to a bell-like ring/shimmer. It is indicative of the (desirable) tension that exists in the metal ... I wish I knew more about it.

I'm predicting your handle will revitalise to something pretty special - in feel and look.

The "8" stamp is your factory ppi ... and the toothline on the saw looks very good. Is there a slight breast to it?

Cheers,
Paul

The problem with a nice and delicate etch is ... you know actually using the saw might damage it.
So you have the issue of liking it as an object ... vs using it freely as a tool.
So there is something to be said for the good-quality user item.
You can find say 60s Disstons around with a clear blade and big etch ... but they will be a heavier, less refined beast than your saw.
And your handle will be *very* nice.

Hi Paul,

The 'ring test' was positive! Holding the saw as advised, a finger tap produced a most pleasant tone - what I would regard as a 'springy warble'.

Yes, there is a slight breast to it:
Breast1.jpg Breast2.jpg
Both of these were taken with the heel contacting the straight edge so the breast is actually half of what's shown at the toe.

Cheers
Brian

Brian

You set me thinking about revealing the etch and I experimented with a small panel saw I inherited from a mate. The bade was rust free not dull and obscured with what is euphemistically described by everyone as a patina. Read s**t for this expression .

Anyhow, I could see nothing on the saw plate with the naked eye, but under a magnifying lamp I could see there was the barest trace of an etch. A quick look at the Disstonian guide seemed to indicate this panel saw was a D7. Just a good honest everyday saw.

I grabbed a piece of 400 grit W & D and using mineral turps for the lubricant started to rub gently using a small piece of hardwood (about 50mm square) for a sanding block.

This what the saw plate started out like:

Disston D8 Panel 001.jpgDisston D8 Panel 002.jpg

but close inspection under a favourable light and the etch is clear. Not only that, it turns out it is a D8. Much better.

Disston D8 Panel 003.jpg

The block used:

Disston D8 Panel 005.jpg

I only rubbed the plate back in the area of the etch just for demonstration purposes. It took about one minute at most. I suppose I'll have to do the rest of it now .

Regards
Paul

(Edit: Another surprise was that it is an earlier D8 with the number enclosed inside the "D." Probably that means pre 1928, but I'll have to research the medallion.)