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Thread: Toothed Foreplane.
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6th May 2014, 12:57 AM #1Deceased
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Toothed Foreplane.
Hi all. It been well over 2 years since I made my last traditional wooden bodied hand plane, and I saw a need to build one for my own personal use that was at 22 inches in length and fitted with a 2 inch wide toothing blade.
The wood chosen to use is Merbau. IMO its a very good choice of timber for making traditional hand planes. Its much heavier and denser than European Beech, rates quite high on the yanka hardness scale, is high in natural oils, and exhibits very little change in wood movement.
At this stage I have the cut block to size, all sides & both ends have been dressed flat, and the area to be mortised out has been marked. Its a project that will take some time to complete as it will need to work around my primary interest at the moment which is backsaw making.
Stewie;
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6th May 2014, 01:25 PM #2SENIOR MEMBER
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Interesting plane Stewie, I note a 50 degree angle, so this is not a long toothing plane then? A 22" toothed trying plane for flattening benches perhaps? I look forward to seeing your process, and the tools you use.
Cheers
Peter
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6th May 2014, 01:46 PM #3Deceased
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19th May 2014, 05:01 PM #4Deceased
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I made the decision to make a couple of changes to the design of the toothing plane. 1st was to reduce the length from 22 to 12 inches. This will make the total weight of the hand plane much more manageable. The 2nd change was the blade bed angle. Its been increased from 50 to 55 degree's. I have built other toothing planes at 55 degree's but not at 50, so I will stick with what I know will work well.
As you will see from the following photo's I am making steady progress with the build. The blade and wedge have been installed. I have set the mouth opening in front of the blade at about 1/8 inch. Much wider than you would require with a conventional blade.
One of the benefits of choosing Merbau for the plane block is its high level of natural tannins. It turns a dark black colour after about 3 coats when treated with an iron oxide stain. (so far the main body has only received its 1st coat.)
I still need to add a bevelled edge across the top and down both ends of the plane block.
I am still undecided on whether a rear tote is needed. Feedback welcome on the need to do so.
Stewie;
This photo shows most of the hand tools I have used so far to build the toothing plane.
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19th May 2014, 09:49 PM #5Deceased
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I am very happy with the flatness of the blade bed as well as the fit of the wedge within the abutments. I use 2 different methods to create a good result with both. With the blade bed I use an ink blotting paper to highlight any high spots with the back of the toothing blade. These marks are then removed with a side or edge float and the process repeated until an even spread of markings show up at the top and bottom of the bed. The middle area of the bed is not as critical in height and can be slightly lower.
With the wedge abutments I coat the top and sides of the wedge with a coloured crayon pencil prior to refitting the wedge with the toothing blade installed. When the wedge is removed any tight spots that impinge on the wedge going full depth will show up with a crayon marking. These marks are removed with a side or edge float and the process repeated until an even spread of markings show along on each side of the wedge abutments. (top to bottom).
I am definitely not in the same league as Phil Edwards when it comes to traditional hand plane builds. But I do reasonably well considering my limited experience.
regards Stewie;
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20th May 2014, 07:43 PM #6Senior Member
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20th May 2014, 08:50 PM #7Deceased
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Hi Richie. Self funded early retirement. Here is the source for the planemaker floats. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/planemakers-floats/
Stewie;
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22nd May 2014, 02:53 PM #8Deceased
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A bit of a teaser for those well versed in traditional bench planes. Later down the track, if I need to re-flatten the sole of this toothing plane.
Will the mouth opening in front of the blade;
1/Increase in size.
2/Stay the same size.
3/Reduce in size.
Stewie;
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23rd May 2014, 07:48 PM #9
By the way you've laid out the front slope of the mouth, Stewie, I think you expect it to remain the same size for quite a few re-flattens of the sole... I saw the angles on the side and wondered why you'd set it out that way - eventually the light dawned. You must be planning to use this plane an awful lot, or live a very long time!
Is this your own invention, or did you get the idea from somewhere else? I'll be interested to hear how it performs. The shaving comes back before it comes up out of the throat, so it seems logical to make a 'wear-proof' throat this way, but my own experience has been that the throat needs to open up very quickly to get shavings out efficiently. I've had to go back & ease the forward slope a bit more on a couple of my own creations, to alleviate choking
Cheers,IW
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23rd May 2014, 09:51 PM #10Deceased
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Hi Ian. Far from being my own idea. The concept of including a back angle from the front of the mouth through to the throat (known as the wear angle) is traditional hand plane design. At a back angle of 8.5* that's more inline with what you would expect to see with a double iron installation. A single iron would traditional have a back angle of around 20*. Surprisingly that's not an overly concerning amount of back angle that would cause a constriction or choking. With a 55* bed angle you would have to go as high as 35* with the back angle before its face became in parallel alignment to the flat face of the iron installed. Corneel has done a lot of work into this subject, and is a very good source of knowledge to rely upon. I dont expect to see a choking problem with this toothing plane, but if I did occur, it wouldn't be that difficult to overcome.
The use of the back bevel will not prevent the throat from increasing in size after each re flatten of the wooden sole. But it can be controlled through the correct selection of the hardwood used for the main body of the plane, as well as continually applying paste wax or mutton tallow over the sole prior to use.
I have just about completed the final shaping work to the plane, so it wont be too far away when I can give it a test run and post the final photo's.
p.s. Have you had the chance to test out the solid carbide bit on some saw plate steel.
regards Stewie.
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24th May 2014, 09:59 AM #11
Stewie, the back bevel would have to be parallel with the bed bevel to maintain exactly the same mouth gap, which of course could only work at all with a single-iron plane. But I thought the reason you made it like that must be to minimise the change with wear & re-flattening that you get with a forward bevel to the front. Is there a purpose for it other than this? It looks to me like it adds considerably to the challenge of cutting out a clean throat!
Yes, I've learned a little bit about woods & sole-wear in my limited plane-making experience (I've made about a dozen planes over 35 years, about half of which were not very good). I've discovered the hard way that some woods wear like fury - Black bean has been my worst choice to date. Mind you, it was for a small double-radiused plane, which cops a lot of abrasion right in front of the mouth because of the way it's used, so I might be being a bit unfair. In general, I've tried to go for dense woods that are a bit 'greasy', like Cooktown Ironwood, which has worked pretty well. However, one of my little Cooktown Ironwood planes gets a bit gummy sometimes, & needs a bit of paraffin to keep it gliding smoothly, whereas another one (from a different block of Ironwood) is fine, which just reminds me that you can never take wood for granted!
Not yet. Been too busy painting the house, which is taking three times as long as I planned, partly due to my indolence (no rush, now I'm retired!) & partly because I've had to do quite a few running repairs that I didn't expect (for instance, replacing a joist on the veranda, which you wouldn't expect on a 17 year old house! ). But I'm finally coming to the end of that job, & I will be having a big saw-making splurge soon, so it will be getting a good workout before too much longer....
Cheers,IW
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24th May 2014, 11:13 AM #12Deceased
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Hi Ian. I dont recall reading any information the explains in detail the reasons for the back angle, so I will need to speculate what the benefits may be.
Its referred to as the wear angle. If there was 0* back angle, the sharp edge formed at the very edge of the mouth entrance would be much more susceptible to wear when compared to that of a more relaxed angle.
This back angle would decrease the amount that the leading edge moves forward after each sole is re flatten. When compared to what you would encounter if there was 0* back angle.
Stewie;
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25th May 2014, 02:36 PM #13Deceased
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25th May 2014, 03:58 PM #14SENIOR MEMBER
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Stewie, great job! Interesting to speculate on why longer toothing planes were not commercially made, especially say for flattening a bench top.
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25th May 2014, 04:11 PM #15Deceased
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Thanks Peter. I am extremely pleased with the way it performs and its final presentation looks a treat. The benefits of a toothing iron are well under valued. There is a lot of worked involved in building these the traditional method and to a high degree of accuracy. There is so much patience required.
Stewie;
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