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8th October 2014, 11:12 PM #16
Just to put in my 2 bobs worth....
I have chronic severe asthma which is usually under control and has little effect on much of my life but rosewood brings on an almost instantaneous attack and, unfortunately, I am now also having a reaction to Australian red cedar. The reaction is mostly rash on exposed skin (neck and wrists) and puffy eyes. Both of these reactions are specifically to fine dust from both of these timbers. General handling and shavings seem to have no adverse effect at all?
flettya rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!
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8th October 2014 11:12 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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13th October 2014, 12:19 AM #17
Funny comment but when we restored the Ena in the 80s one of the blokes got 'Teak dick'
He didn't find it amusing at all.
Western Red Cedar also took the nose off a TAFE teacher in the ACT.
Blackbean stopped all woodworking for a mate who did some work in it for the Parliament House in 88. Very severer chest problems.
Another mate who'd turned the stuff all his life became allergic to Blackwood and couldn't walk into his shed else his tongue would swell up and he couldn't breathe.
I had myself given a full allergy test after serving an apprenticeship and working as a patternmaker before undertaking a furniture design/making course in the 80s.
MDF would have to be the current bogy if the urea degassing doesn't get you the fine dust must affect your lungs just as the paper dust killed the old Linotype printers.
Oleander killed migrants way back when they used it to skewer their snags for the BBQ.
I bought a Racal back in the 80s having a beard and so far so good.
H.Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)
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24th November 2014, 06:23 PM #18SENIOR MEMBER
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Yes, just watched a series on YouTube by Steve Hay (Woodworking Master class). he mentioned he is now allergic to Red Cedar, Sad when that happens. I sometimes wonder what it is that gives me a terrible itch and I'm only just getting back into it ??
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25th November 2014, 10:36 AM #19Intermediate Member
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Great thread and thanks heaps for the UBeaut list. Saved me a trip to the Doc....
I note Australian Miva Mahogany has listed symptoms including Congestion of lungs, eye inflammation, irritation of mucous membranes, headache, nose bleed, loss of appetite.
I will add severe stomach pains and diarrhoea to the list as I experienced on Sunday night/Monday morning after a weekend making a small jewelry box from this stuff.
I thought I had a really bad virus (manflu according to my wife) until my nose started bleeding.... This stuff is just plain dangerous and I would hazard that if substantial amounts of dust were inhaled by a small child, things could get serious.... I'm plan to upgrade my dust protection this week...
Any dust mask suggestions for the hobbyist ?
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25th November 2014, 11:06 AM #20.
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I would not recommend any masks alone for dealing with wood dust allergies.
Once an allergy is triggered even moderate skin contact may cause a reaction so the dust must be extracted from the area where and while it is being made. This means using a dust extractor that is located or vents outside the shed. Few people realise that it's less the visible saw dust and more the fine invisible dust that causes the problems. Using a mask does not removed the dust from the air which means the shed air become saturated with fine dust. Working/moving around in such an environment means that your body sucks the fine dust into the gaps between clothing and your body where it sticks and builds up in moist areas thereby increasing exposure to allergens which may be absorbed by the skin.
Once one wood dust allergy is triggered the likelihood of reactions to other species also increases, so for anyone with one allergy a decent dust extraction is a wise investment if they wish to keep woodworking.
Once your DC is setup, then using a mask as well is good insurance.
Using a mask alone is like using a bandaid on a broken leg.
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25th November 2014, 11:11 AM #21Intermediate Member
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25th November 2014, 11:50 AM #22.
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Good to hear you have a DC.
In case you are unaware;
If your DC uses 100mm ducting then no matter how powerful the DC is, this size ducting is too small to allow sufficient air flow to grab the dust at source.
The minimum diameter ducting that should be used is 150 mm and this requires at least a 3HP unit to use over some distance of ducting.
The 1 micron filter rating means very little without the efficiency rating at that micron size. Most so called "1 micron" rated filters are 70% efficient at 1 micron. This means 30% of the fine dust at 1 micron passes straight through the filter and out into the shed. for sizes smaller than 1 micron the percentage passing through will be much greater.
The main problem with all DCs and VCs is not usually the filter but that they all leak, some quite badly, and this cannot always be detected without expensive test gear and testing on a regular basis and who wants to be doing this instead of woodworking? If you can't locate the DC outside then an alternative is putting the DC inside an enclosure and venting that outside the shed.
Room air filters are a bit like masks, something to use after the DC system is fully optimised. Most wood working machines like sanders and routers will fill a shed with fine dust far faster than it can be removed by a room air filter. It's much better to grab the dust at source before it spreads that trying to round the dust up after it has reached every nook and cranny in the shed. It's more efficient $ wise to build an effective DC system than trying to patch things with a room air filter.
Room air filters are very useful to use in areas in which finishing is applied since they remove not just wood but all other dust as well.
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25th November 2014, 12:30 PM #23Intermediate Member
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I'm gonna need a bigger garage/shed... .
I have one of these:
and it works pretty well for the price and space it takes up.
And have stashed it in the far left corner by removing a cupboard like so and have recently upgraded my saw for better dust collection/safety.
I have also upgraded the dust ports on my bobbin and disk sanders, however, I'm not sure I have the space for a fully ducted 3hp system in my one car garage... Still need to put a car in to it each night. sigh..... But I will invest in a decent dust mask as a start and also get the cyclone system up and running....
Sanding is the killer... my power sander had a tiny little hose attachment and hand sanding (which I do a lot of) is still an issue. I might see if I can drill some holes in the work bench, seal them in by building a lower cavity with a DC attachment to serve as down draft dust extraction table and bench dog holes at the same time....
Thankfully, I don't have any more of the Miva Mahogany and I have never had a reaction to any other woods in my (albeit limited) woodworking lifetime..... but my recent experience has highlighted a real issue in my small shop....
Thanks for the advice and guidance....
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25th November 2014, 09:30 PM #24.
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Thanks for posting the pics and explaining the situation.
What sort of cyclone is it and what is it going to be connected to?
Sanding is the killer...
my power sander had a tiny little hose attachment and hand sanding (which I do a lot of) is still an issue
. I might see if I can drill some holes in the work bench, seal them in by building a lower cavity with a DC attachment to serve as down draft dust extraction table and bench dog holes at the same time.....
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25th November 2014, 10:18 PM #25
This sub-forum is for bad woods. Please keep dust control posts to the appropriate sub-forum
Neil____________________________________________Every day presents an opportunity to learn something new
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25th November 2014, 11:26 PM #26Intermediate Member
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Fair enough....
I am curious if anyone has any experience in the matter as to why some woods (like miva mahogany) are bad while (for me anyway) most I have no problem with?
Is it in the chemical make up of the wood or something to do with the soil in the regions in which they grow in or a natural defense against being turned (no pun intended) into something other than firewood (like food for something).
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26th November 2014, 11:08 AM #27
Similar reason to why some people are allergic to seafood or citrus or eggs or flour or cats etc.
Just lucky I guess.
I do know that exposure to a particular substance usually triggers the allergic reaction so the next time the effected person comes in contact with it, they experience the reaction.
I also know that it is sometimes possible to 'desensitize' somebody by giving them minute doses of the allergen over a period of time but it doesn't work for everybody.
The main thing about this list is to know that it is possible to get a reaction to the timber on it anywhere from mild to wild so you should take precautions when you work with it.
BobL's message (worth listening to) is that you should avoid breathing all dust, full stop.Cliff.
If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.
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26th November 2014, 01:13 PM #28.
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I was wondering how long we'd get away with it.
It's interesting what Cliff was saying about sensitisation and desensitisation.
I don't use a lot of MDF (mainly for jigs etc) since I suffered a reaction to it back in 2002 while making the insides of a desk. What was surprising was that most of this was done whilst working outside. I was using a basic mask but not all the time. The problem with something like MDF is that the chemicals in MFD can pass straight through most masks.
The reaction itself started out with sinus irritation (runny nose) which grew to flu like symptoms (blocked and swollen sinuses, sore throat, aches and pains, but no fever) that lasted for about a week and after that I couldn't smell anything for about 6 weeks. The loss of the sense of smell severely affected the sense of taste with beer tasting especially bad. Fruit tasted like veges and VV all very confusing.
After that for many years I only needed a faint whiff of MDF dust to start feeling a reaction (sinus irritation) to it so I stayed away from using it.
Since installing a half decent DC system on 2011 I've found I can easily use it without a reaction.
Recently I decided to take a deliberate whiff and found it did not affect me.
I've no doubt that my system does not get rid of all the dust so my guess is I was being exposed at a low level and have become desensitised?
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26th November 2014, 07:15 PM #29
MDF is the only timber(?) I have ever had a bad reaction to....(fingers crossed)
I think there's a bit more than timber in mdf....
TM
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27th November 2014, 01:07 AM #30
I used to have a strong reaction to Western red cedar and was developing sensitivity to cocobolo and Indian rosewood. I found that avoiding alcohol, particularly beer, the day before and for a day or two after exposure to dust from these types of wood greatly improved my symptoms. It's been three years since beginning this practice and now I have little to no reaction to them.
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